When are we going to stop normalising jet-setting fathers leaving mothers and young babies at home?

[Chickenchopstix]

Or even celebrating it?
Unfortunately, this is the case in the circles I'm surrounded by. A baby comes along, Dad's life continues whilst new mothers are stuck at home exhausted with young babies and a lack of support, or they're having to ask other family members to step in and do Dad's role so they can continue with luxurious social lives.

It happened to me with my children when they were babies and I fell out of love with their father and left him when I felt strong enough. But I've never forgotten how he made me feel. There was a year or so of breastfeeding and teething and sleepless nights, of them just needing their parents and then we could pick up our lives a little. But my DH couldn't do it. He fought for his freedom, for his lads holidays and golfing trips and just said "just because you can't leave them, doesn't mean I can't." I really needed his support and he abandoned me for a social life that he couldn't put on the shelf for a very short time during those crazy, sleep deprived baby years. I never felt the same about him again.

This weekend, two male friends have gone away for a few days- both have young babies at home and the responses on social media are celebratory of their latest escapade. I just find it ridiculous. A breastfeeding mum can't do this and it shouldn't be normalised that Dad's can and leave their wives at home instead of being a team and doing their share.

The baby years don't last forever.

The comments on the post annoy me- all so celebratory and yet if a mother of a young baby took these abroad trips so often, it would be frowned upon. Although let's face it, how do breastfeeding mums even get the opportunity?

@Coffeaddict oops. I meant why would you need to pump to go for a run?

Agreed @Ponderingwindow
What's the big rush to get on with life as it was?!

What support? You’ve already said well some babies won’t take a bottle so that’s out. The father cannot breastfeed. Your whole position is based around the mother not being able to do what she wants when she wants because she has to feed the baby. I think quite understandably you have a lot of residual resentment and shock due to your husband’s decisions. But I genuinely think your experience is very far from normalised. Bit bemused by you discussing how your ex was going to be a better dad than your colleague’s partner would be and her agreeing with you. Maybe just nodded along? Seems an utterly mad conversation

@Chickenchopstix African Caribbean, honestly he was just so bloody amazing and remained to be well into toddler years ect.

If it's relevant but me and my current DH are not from the Uk - so maybe that plays into it but we are Caucasian.

My ex was born and bred English.

I hope no one takes mortal offence to what I have put but from what I have seen in my friendship groups, there does seem to be a pattern.

My friend jokes and says him mum would beat his arse if he didn't act like the man she raised. It's really quite a stark contrast.

People can really love the idea of becoming a parent but the reality can really test your metal. Parenting certainly tested mine.

What sort of support??

This is my experience as well. I don’t know anyone who had their husbands or partners buggering off with mates when they had babies.

Exactly.

There are always red flags, but "none are so blind as those who refuse to see."

I am tired of people playing the victim after choosing to procreate with immature, selfish, disinterested (in parenthood) or incompetent men.

The survival instinct is strong, though, and while it might not be baby's first choice, if mum is not there, they will accept a bottle, that they might refuse to take from mum or knowing mum is there. There are ways around it.

You what?

What exactly are you saying now?
That men can't support their wives with parenting if they're breastfeeding?

Give me fucking strength

That made me laugh 😂

Maybe I'm just strange, or perhaps lockdown and other issues played into it, but I bottle-fed from 2 weeks and - shocker! - aril didn't go out / away when my baby was small!

Why is it seen that bottle-feeding mums do so only in order to leave their babies? Am I bizarre for not doing so, even though I theory someone else could have fed my DS? Feeding was one of my favourite times and I like to know when he'd fed and now much. And, you know, be with my baby!

Gosh, excuse the typos!!

I am in my 50s so well over the baby years, but when my dc were small my dh wouldn't have dreamt of pissing off for a few days with his mates. It helped I suppose that destination weddings and weekend hens and stags weren't really much of a thing, not in my circle anyway. If we spent precious family time and money we went away as a couple (thank god for mil) or as a family.

You still haven’t said what kind of support?! What do you actually mean? Just the father being there whilst the child is young? I genuinely do not know what you mean. You’ve made breastfeeding central to your post.

So why not normalise the notion that women shouldn't turn a blind eye to their DH/DPs failings before they start having children. At the heart of these dilemmas is very very often poor communication, women thinking they'll change once they have children, ignoring all the red flags, etc.

No way are these men suddenly turning into financially abusive monsters when the children arrive, they were already selfish, tight fisted and misogynistic gits.

@Chichz I didn't often leave my bottle fed baby either.

You're not bizarre at all 💕

One good rule of thumb is not to date anyone described as a "gentleman."

I am tired of people playing the victim after choosing to procreate with immature, selfish, disinterested (in parenthood) or incompetent men.

Ahh there it is. It couldn't be a man's fault, there has to be a womens fault at the root and it's this mentality some women teach their sons, that creates these incompetent, selfish men.

Anecdotally when I lost my son, and fell pregnant with my Dd. My ex ML (who I liked and still really do like) said that it was my fault he cheated on me (as I sat 8months pregnant) because I had lost his first son. I hadn't fucking misplaced my fucking son or done anything to cause it , I was just unlucky enough to have a stillbirth.

But sure you will class that as "playing the victim" 🙄 I'm sure.

Girl power truly did die in the 90s 😒

@hourbyhour101 your circumstances are so sad, that must have been so difficult. There is a HUGE problem with internalised misogyny reflected in your ex MIL’s cruel comments and wider society. And yes producing little princes remains a stubborn problem. But it’s wrong to classify mine or anyone else’s comments here as anti feminist. My point is women do not have to accept partners who are incapable or unwilling to be involved and caring parents but many do, even though there are signs that those qualities are there before they marry and have children. My point is the direct opposite of what you have posited. I know in previous bad relationships with hindsight I can see the signs were there that their actions did not reflect their words, but I wanted the relationship and closed my eyes. It’s not my fault he was an arse to me, it’s always the arsehole’s. But it was clear from the start who he was if I really looked.

We’ve got to normalise having these conversations before pregnancies. If a man says he’s not sure about kids, believe him
discuss the first year, work etc - so much seems to be assumed both ways.

This ^^. And don’t rush into having children until you’ve been together for a while. My eldest ,DD, had trouble latching so we had to buy an electric pump and a special bottle to help her learn how to latch. It ended up being a blessing in disguise, as she learned how to bf and bottle feed simultaneously my expressed milk-so DH could be more involved. I did a degree when mine weee canoes so I didn’t feel trapped, I was moving forward with my life and it didn’t bother me that DH had to travel for work and chose to travel sometimes for pleasure.

I think you’ve been a difficult situation, OP, but it’s not the universal experience. BF is such a short time, tbh, you have the rest of your life to travel.

*when mine were babies ( not canoes🤣)

Can't we just normalise the mums having freedom too? They could choose to have someone give the baby a bottle if they want a weekend away.

When is MN going to drop this absurd toxic culture of being able to see into the future "you should have known what he would be like with kids when you married him..."?

It's no different to blaming wives for their adulter husbands who promised to be faithful on their wedding day!

Ah... should have had the conversation shouldn't they, should have asked them if they were going to stay faithful... then they would have known!

Also, people do change.
Illness changes people.
Illness changes circumstances.

I became ill after DC2 and needed more help than I'd imagined. It would be ridiculous if DH had turned to me and said " well, you never mentioned this pre-kids, wasn't part of the plan, so sorry darling. Hard luck."

🤔

@Squirrelgate The problem is that many exclusively bf babies refuse to take bottles-that’s why I was lucky in a way that my DD had trouble at first, because I could introduce mixed feeding early.

When is MN going to drop this absurd toxic culture of being able to see into the future "you should have known what he would be like with kids when you married him..."?

@Chickenchopstix I dunno, I personally think there can be warning signs that people can choose to ignore.

My SIL and her DH agreed to have children before they married, but after a couple of years, she realized that everything would be left to her as he’s v. self-absorbed. So she decided to stay child-free. She actually told me this was the reason.

My DH, OTOH, has always been a kind, nurturing type, I instinctively knew he’d be an involved Dad. I’m less nurturing tbh, I’m the one who’s had to learn to be less selfish!

@Eyerollcentral the problem is hindsight is 20/20.

I went into my first pregnancy with that total lalala and although there had been still births in my family, I had friends who had losses and looking back there were signs that my little doll wasn't well (on smaller side) kicked less towards the end. I can't tell you how I kicked my self for missing those flags, maybe I would have him say next to me now.

But I hoped (foolishly and naively) it wouldn't happen to me. I was wrong.

I was human.

I also take strongly against people blaming the victim as I work with people who experience dv (pro bono- not my main work) because the shame stops people talking about it. And that shame kills.

People may miss flags but abuse statically speaking usually starts after a pregnancy or birth of a child.

So yes iMO people miss flags but that is not a equal crime to being a shitty dad/abusive with a child you had equal input in creating (baring people saying they are taking pill but they aren't)

Sadly also plenty people can be shitty partners but good dads and good partners and shitty dads.

I am not the mother I thought I would be when I was pregnant.

That said please forgive me for being so emotive. Believing the best in people and situations is and will remain foolish in some eyes (and sometimes in my darker moments also mine). But I cannot pretend that all mistakes are equal and I also cannot knock someone for believing or hoping for the best.

Even if that hope (when snuffed out) causes them the darkest of pain or blame them.