When are we going to stop normalising jet-setting fathers leaving mothers and young babies at home?

[Chickenchopstix]

Or even celebrating it?
Unfortunately, this is the case in the circles I'm surrounded by. A baby comes along, Dad's life continues whilst new mothers are stuck at home exhausted with young babies and a lack of support, or they're having to ask other family members to step in and do Dad's role so they can continue with luxurious social lives.

It happened to me with my children when they were babies and I fell out of love with their father and left him when I felt strong enough. But I've never forgotten how he made me feel. There was a year or so of breastfeeding and teething and sleepless nights, of them just needing their parents and then we could pick up our lives a little. But my DH couldn't do it. He fought for his freedom, for his lads holidays and golfing trips and just said "just because you can't leave them, doesn't mean I can't." I really needed his support and he abandoned me for a social life that he couldn't put on the shelf for a very short time during those crazy, sleep deprived baby years. I never felt the same about him again.

This weekend, two male friends have gone away for a few days- both have young babies at home and the responses on social media are celebratory of their latest escapade. I just find it ridiculous. A breastfeeding mum can't do this and it shouldn't be normalised that Dad's can and leave their wives at home instead of being a team and doing their share.

The baby years don't last forever.

The comments on the post annoy me- all so celebratory and yet if a mother of a young baby took these abroad trips so often, it would be frowned upon. Although let's face it, how do breastfeeding mums even get the opportunity?

I think there are abusive arseholes but you are assumption that all the people you see taking holidays without their spouses or children (whatever their sex) are in a similar dynamic to yours is wrong.

You’re right @Chickenchopstix

And it happens BECAUSE the going away is celebrated and no one dares pointing out that going away like this often comes at a cost. And it’s the mother who pays that costs
(well the fathersay a cost too but they often don’t see it. It comes at the cost if they’re marriage and iften at the cost if their relationship to their child. But it’s likely that they won’t see it).

fwiw, to put a bit if balance, I think going away ONCE can be an ok thing to do if their us a clear agreement about it.
The issue is that the type if men who go out many times ‘with the lads’ etc… are also the same men who do little to support their dwife in the first place,

Exactly.

No sympathy for people complaining about a disinterested spouse. They picked him.

Be more discriminating in choice of co-parent before conception.

I also suspect (and whilst my evidence is many anecdata) that where couples end up with this kind of parenting dynamic, the man was generally unfussed about having a baby in the first place and mainly went along with it for his partner’s benefit, thus seeing the baby as primarily her responsibility because she was the one who wanted it.

This x1000

@Chickenchopstix it kinda sounds like your main issue here is breastfeeding, to be honest.

Well breastfeeding is a choice. If you’re not happy with it stop.
I never stopped DH going anywhere, when I stopped breastfeeding I went away too.

I think the problem is that you don't really know someone until you have a child with them. Being in relationship, even a decades long relationship, rarely requires the amount of team work and selflessness of raising a child. I remember saying things like 'oh yes he can go out as much as he likes, I'll be happy at home with the DC's' well it turns out I wasn't happy with this agreement. Staying in pre children when you're knavkered or ill or lazy is a completely different kettle of fish to having to stay in weekend after weekend whilst one of you goes out. Also the resentful day after where you still have to do everything as they're hungover or haven't come home yet. The way that the DC's don't even notice if dad doesn't come home but sit there wailing at the door when you leave. The way you have to get ready for a night out whilst also cooking their tea, making bottles, leaving notes for babysitters, reading stories, pairing up pyjamas etc.
It's nothing which really can be prepared for and even the nicest man can surprise you (yes, triathlon and cycling enthusiasts, I mean you) and leave you stranded at home weekend after weekend.

You’re missing the point though.

The issue isn’t that the OP wants to stop men from ever going out.

She is saying that when the mother is struggling and needs support, they shouldn’t be going away Wo a backwards glance.

A lot if them do because they won’t be told what to do or not to do by the dwife. Regardless of how said dwife is doing.

A lot if new mums also struggle, regardless of b’fing. It’s great if you haven’t and felt your DH not being there wasn’t a great problem. But not all women are in that position, far from.

As you said, once you stopped b’find you could go out again too (great btw - this means you actually had enough energy to even consider going out!).
But this is also true for fathers who can start going out again when their child isn’t as demanding in attention and energy from their parents (or more likely form their mother - b’fing or not)

It’ll stop when women stop having babies with feckless men who very clearly will not change.

OR…. Drum roll….. the guy actually showed his true colour later on or change his attitude once the baby was there.

My DH certainly reverted to a 1950 attitude once the bay was there. There was no sign of that before. Total share of the hw, cooking, similar wage etc…. We were acting like equals. Nit so much once ML made me by default the ‘housewife’ responsible of everything.
I don’t think that unusual and takes a hell of a lot of work to revert back to a more equal set up.

@TrotOnMinty every man I've ever met whose acted like this has been a university educated, clean shaven, take home to the parents style toff. WC men on the whole step up more and enjoy parenting. They are generally more likely to be the products of single mums and so have more of an understanding of how hard that role is.

Since when did taking responsibility for feeding a baby and prioritising that above fancy getaways mean that women must be unhappy with it @underneaththeash?!

What an odd thing to say

@Joannagorilla thinking about it... yes. All of the men I've seen do this grew up with both parents, quite privileged, went to university. Not saying all men who go to university do this of course before anyone jumps on that!

And yeh... they're self righteous with it.

Your title of when are we going to stop "normalising " suggests you think it is normal.

We tend to refer to silly comments like that as gaslighting @MolliciousIntent

Incredible how you know what I "really mean" better than I do... 🤦‍♀️🤔

This.

Well nobody forced them to shoot their sperm inside their wife did they... 🙄

Dh spent 3 weeks in every 4 overseas
Most people I would speak to would tell me that he was being terrible and he should be home helping me out

Personally I loved it. I didn’t want him helping me.

I had a great time. Took dc and met up with other single mum friends.

Plus apart from just after I gave birth to Ds till he was 2years old (My brain went to mush and I forgot how to write a cheque, drive, or how to make a cup of coffee among other things. Each day it was a different thing that I normally did without too much thought that suddenly I had no idea how to do it. It was baby brain x 10,000) Dh would transfer me virtually all of his salary into my account because he is hopeless with money and I would deal with all the financial stuff.
Must admit after 2 years of Dh paying bills he said I needed to go back to work as he wasn’t managing the bills on his salary alone.
I spent the first day reducing our outgoings by £1200 per month. (Did I mention he was terrible with money)

I certainly didn’t need anyone else coming to do dh’s role.

Dc weren’t the easiest of children as both have adhd but we got along fine without him there as I knew them well enough to know how to handle them

It was the week he was back that things would be more stressful.

I agree 100%. These threads never go well though.

This thread is utter bollocks. Stop projecting YOUR insecurities and issues in your relationship on other people. Firstly, breastfeeding is a choice and nobody is forcing you to do it. If you want to go away without the kids and your husband won't allow it / facilitate it, that's an entirely separate issue unrelated to breastfeeding. If you choose to exclusively breastfeed and don't give your baby a bottle, don't be a martyr about it. Be happy with your choice, but don't make it everyone else's choice too.

My husband goes on holiday with his friends, he just got back from the World Cup in Qatar. I fully support it, I'm going away next weekend with my girlfriends for a spa weekend. I've got two young children and am pregnant with DC3, we fully support each other to have a fucking social life because we don't want to spend every waking minute with each other - it's not healthy for us and we work better having some time with our friends too. Is that ok with you @Chickenchopstix ??

Also finding it funny how everything is "the experience of your friends". Ive got a lot of friends and not experienced a single thing like you "claim" you have. A married couple with a husband refusing to share his money with his wife while she's on maternity pay? Yeah right.

So wait, because you chose to breastfeed and therefore can't leave the baby, your husband has to spend 365 days a year in the house with you too? No thank you.

100 percent agree OP.

Men need to accept that to be an adequate father and partner that their lives will change once children arrive and decisions need to be made taking into account what is best for the whole family. Yes some women make poor choices but equally many men profess to want kids and give the impression that they are going to be involved parents but then act in a different way. The number of men who don’t pay child support at all or only pay the government minimum is proof of that
Saying it’s a woman’s fault for not choosing better is victim blaming.

I'm sorry you married an asshole OP. My experience is the same as @museumum. I just don't know any men who behave the way you describe and I can say for certain that any who did do this would be frowned upon. Also, I'd add that in most of the couples I know it's really no big sacrifice for the man not to have a "jet setting" lads' social life because they prefer spending time with their partners anyway. Usually it's a good idea to marry a bloke with similar interests. I wouldn't have even been attracted to a golfer because golf is not my cup of tea at all. I think people are kidding themselves a bit when they settle down with someone who has a hobby or interest that they couldn't care less about- recipe for separate lives.

Exactly
I discussed parenting issues with my dh before we married.
In fact, I insisted we put it in writing.

Well don't breastfeed I gave DS the first few days for the antibodies after that he got bottle and to add extra Mumsnet horror we had a perfect prep and used single use bottles when out 😬🤣 he survived and has a good immune system!

We enjoy traveling both as a family and as same sex groups so far this year we've done
Families weekend away in a luxury house
4 caravan weekends for DS
2 weeks at a Caribbean all inclusive (DS favourite)
Girls weekend and boys weekend
DS has also been away for a week with his grandparents twice
We don't count nights out both with or without DS but will have had multiple

Next year diary is also booking up
House weekend with the kids in March
Cruise with friends in August
Looking to book Egypt for may half term
We will add some caravan weekends in
DH has an a abroad stag do booked and the girls fancy similar we will go different weekends and swap looking after the kids

When DS was younger (ie pre weekend sports) we both enjoyed our alone time with him to do activities like petting farms, cinema, go karting etc. I can't imagine DH never going away without me again it would drive me mad having him as a shadow 24/7!