Should we have children?

[FrankPelham]

I am 47, DW is 39. We have been together for 17 years. I have a 28-year old daughter as a result of a teenage "holiday fling", she was born in America and at her mother's request has never been part of my life.

I have never wanted children and neither has DW. Until now... the ticking has started and it is loud. Many of her friends are pregnant or have babies. Sometimes DW gets very down about this situation, understandably. VERY very down.

Why don't I want children?

• Life is full. We both have many and varied interests in sports and the arts. We go out regularly, both together and individually. I don't want that to change.

• When I'm a pensioner, I don't want to be sharing my home with a teenager.

• We come and go as we please. We are both freelance journalists (on very different publications) so hours can be unpredictable and both of us sometimes work late at the office. Also, both of us often go climbing with friends (or camping, etc) for the weekend at very short notice. I don't want that to change.

• I love PEACE at home. During quiet weekends I like nothing better than to sit in our living room with the garden doors open and read the Telegraph in total silence.

• We are financially independent; we have never had a shared account; DW hates depending on other people. If we have a child, she will depend on me financially but will resent having to ask. I don't want to suddenly spend my money on anyone else and will resent being asked.

If I have children it will only be to keep DW, but my nice easy life will be ruined. And how much time will she be able to spend with me anyway? If I don't have children, DW may resent me for the rest of our days, or leave me to have children - which she is seriously considering.

What should I do? Can anybody share experiences of this situation?

I am asking in Mumsnet because after searching the internet for a suitable place to ask, there seems to be a good mixture of people here.

Exactly, yurt!

I'm glad we found a decision that was best for both of us, lulu.

Because he deserved it just as much as I did.

We don't talk about what we went through, it's in the past and though our spouses know about it and we've all moved on.

I wish everyone the same, because 39 is not too late to find someone else if that's what it takes or to go it alone, even.

I had these thoughts, 'What if I never have children? I'm unable to, or don't find someone to have them with, etc. and then I packed in an otherwise good marriage.'

But I had to know. I had to at least try, and then I knew I'd have no regrets.

He loved me enough to let me go and find out, and he loved himself enough to be true to himself.

I've got to say, this is fascinating. A really interesting thread. (Although I don't have the stamina to read the whole thing).

FrankPelham, I've got to agree with the majority of the posters, that there are always hundreds of reasons not to have children, but that having your own changes your entire outlook on life.

There is no comparison with other people's children, I find other kids tiresome, but my own daughter fills me with delight every day. I know my partner's proudest moment was when she said her first word - dada, said right to him as he wass feeding her lunch.

As for reading the paper in silence, I still find time to do that, newborns sleep alot, and older kids have naps.

I think the most frustrating thing is that childless friends just don't get it, they think having a cat compares to the overwhelming feelings of love you have for your child.

Having said all that, I admire you for actually taking the time to come on here and seek out people's opinions, I think that shows an alarming amount of respect for your wife's wishes, and whatever you decide I wish you luck.

Are you willing to be educated??

Not sure what you mean. I'm pretty open to new experiences. I'm broad-minded and tolerant. And very patient.

Frank, with respect I am not sure your OP reflects that, BUT if you ARE broad-minded, tolerant and open to new experiences then go for it!!

And the point about being willing to be educated I think refers to the fact that children mirror and model your own behaviour (to a frightening degree!!!). So through having children, you are forced to look at yourself and be educated about the sort of person you really are.

Without being soppy, it's one of the greatest gifts children give us.

childbearing and rearing is not for everyone though

not everyone childless actually yearns for children and overcompensates with pets or whatever

and am pretty sure that some parents wish they had remained childless

i think if you need talking into it, then it most likely is not the right decision

it is like falling in love , or meeting 'the one', on the whole, you just know

there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to remain childfree. but when it is not both parties that feel the same way , that is when you have the difficulty

having a baby with someone to keep them happy is not always a good decision to make.

Agree Lulumama - I think there are people out there who have been persuaded to have children and who regret it. They just never say it out loud because it's too much of a taboo.

On the other hand - I think there are also people whose life circumstances have taken them in a certain direction/who weren't sure/who didn't have a great 'maternal' example to follow, who have gone ahead despite of all those factors and parenthood has proved to be an overwhelmingly positive experience for them.

Agree too (as I said in earlier post) I doubt doing it entirely for someone else is a good thing. Frank has to want it for himself as well.

Only the op can decide!

Keep being drawn inexorably back to this thread ... Frank please let us know when you eventually decide what to do ...good luck with your decision!!!

sorry - can't put this thread down

... at the age of 38 I didn't actually "want" children per se, but I definitely wanted dh's child, if that makes any difference????

...off to tie my hands behind my back now ....

I think there are people out there who have been persuaded to have children and
who regret it. They just never say it out loud because it's too much of a taboo.

One of my closest male friends very much regretted having children for about 5 years, although not now. His experience has been a big influence on me.

Keep being drawn inexorably back to this thread

It's so interesting to read the wide variety of experiences that led you all to contented parenthood. Quite a few obviously felt exactly the same as I do now.

Frank please let us know when you eventually decide what to do

I will, but it will be a few weeks before I decide.

best of luck with making your decsion

Yes I have close friends who really regret having children.

It's been quite a shock to watch, actually.

They really miss their previous life of travelling and clubbing and independence.

They moved next to their own parents, so that their parents are providing a large part of the child-rearing. Both work full-time. The phrase that no-one regrets having children but lots of people regret not-having them is not true, unfortunately.

I strongly suggest seeing a counsellor about this!

I really, really cannot recommend that enough.

Either go on your own or both of you go or both of you go AND you go on your own.

We did, and it did make our joint decision easier in that we felt we'd given it our best effort and we'd worked out and were at peace with what we both wanted.

It helped us accept what we each wanted.

I couldn't agree more with Lulu or morningpaper.

Best of luck.

Just to add (as my previous post was rather gloomy) it is perfectly possible to travel, even relatively adventurously with children.

It sounds like you have enough personal resources to buy yourselves a break now and then - whether that be by extra domestic help or some childcare. It makes a big difference.

If you've never experienced having a child then perhaps you need to do some research yourself - if you know people with young children/babies then spend some time with them and find out what it's all about - many pros, and cons but don't make your mind up until you've done some proper groundwork.
My impression is that you are thoughtful and caring - or you wouldn't be soul-searching - I think you'd be a wonderful father if you decided to try for a child, but it has to be a joint decision and committment. Good luck to both of you.

Also agree with lulu's posts and expat's "But for many people, their lifestyle is their life. And there's really nothing wrong with that."

Most of my friends (30-early 40ies) who have children did not yearn for it. It was just something that happened in the wider scheme of things.
They did want that sort of lifestyle change but did not fully realise how emotionally/practically disruptive it would be.
For all, first 3 years very disruptive (on the couple's intimacy/the woman's career/the individual freedom).
None of them regret it now though. Our kids do make us grow emotionally and spiritually in extremely challenging ways.

I also have friends who chose the status quo. They have very fulfilling lives. And I do have to say they do not lack the emotional depth at all.
I only mention this because some post gave me the impression that not having children is a sign of selfishness/emotional aridity of some sort.
That is certainly not the case of my childless friends.

what Mild said

and

you will have AMPLE time to read The Telegraph inunterrupted in the Nursing Home.

MMJ
You are right of course.

But I think he's already likely to have experienced the mind blowing soul searching joys of having a child. In this instance - not caring for a 28 year old daughter and dealing with the emotional turmoil at some point in his life.
He seems happy enough with being called self centered. Great for him.

The bottom line remains the woman he loves and how SHE feels.

FrankPelham - do you think about the difference between 'having a baby' and 'having a child'? I know I did! It always seems to me that so many people are obsessed with babies! I'm not! When we eventually got round to having a baby it was because we wanred a child and the pink puking pooing crying thing that we had to have around for a few months was un unfortunately essential step along the way. BUT... amazingly we worshipped him the moment he arrived! Both of us were none too sure that we'd done the right thing even when I was pregnant. For me, it was love at first sight when the slimy bloody purple blob with moon pools for eyes was given to me after birth. Dh said it took him about a week to feel the same way.

And I think the 28 year old daughter is a red herring in this case. He has never met her. Presumably people who are sperm donors as students don't go through soul searching re their feelings for the child(ren) to whom they are a biological father. Just because Frank had a fling that resulted in a child I don't think that he should necessarily feel any different.

it's not a mind-blowing Eureka revlation moment for some people, and i certainly wouldn't want to be teh child whose parent gambled on loving me after i was born. and then quite possibly didn't, especially if, like some of our children, you have special needs.

and if you read the OP, it's not all about reading hte paper in peace. there are some serious issues this couple faces if they have a child, such as his wife's financial capabilities and how she feels about these, and how he feels about having a teen when he's much older.

but frank, you know that.

you also know that you should NOT base your decision on a bunch of random strangers online.

because this is way too important.

phone a counsellor on Monday and go! you and your spouse need to work out with a professional how you both really feel and hopefully make a joint decision with the aid of a professional marriage counsellor.

totally what the mildmanneredjanitor said.

i am losing patience with this thread.

I'm touched that it's lasted this long. I think it shows how much you all care, TBH.

you will have AMPLE time to read The Telegraph inunterrupted in the Nursing Home

That made me laugh out loud

He seems happy enough with being called self centered

Without doubt, I am. But not selfish.

And I think the 28 year old daughter is a red herring in this case

It is really. I was a totally different person then.

you also know that you should NOT base your decision on a bunch of random strangers online

No, but I have learnt a lot, and that will inform our decision.

Exactly, Frank. You were a 19-year-old kid. And I find it a bit hypocritical of people to hold that over your head when most of us probably made some very big mistakes right about that time.

I also find it a bit mean-spirited to label someone self-centred and selfish because they don't want children.

As I've stated, I have several good friends who are are now in the 40s and childfree by choice and they are anything but. They were mature enough and honest enough with themselves to know that they did NOT want the uncertainty, the upheaval and the commitment that children bring, despite all the good things that may or may not come with that.

And I think that deserves just as much respect as those of us who decided otherwise.

I know a few couples who have chosen not to have children. Some of them are very self-centred, but plenty of others are not. I don't think they're so different from the majority, are they?

I do think I've become a nicer person since having children - it seems to trip a switch in your brain. I can remember coming home with ds1 2 days after birth and that night there was something on the news about a soldier being shot in the head and killed. Whereas perviously I would've thought 'Oh dear' I suddenly had an overwhelming surge of pain for his poor mother. It's something that no one could explain to someone who isn't a parent (and by that I mean a proper parent - not just being the biological father to a 28-year old you've never seen). I'm sure that's why some people put so much pressure on others to have children - it's a form of evangelism!

Well I am going against the majority slightly. I had a child because dh wanted one, I really didn't want one. I regetted having ds in a very complete and profound way for a long time. I nowadays (he is 3 yesrs old) regret having him about half of the time and I am hoping that by the time he starts school most of the regret will have gone. This does not mean I don't love him deeply, I do but havIng a child has changed my life in such a profound way it is impossible to describe, yet I am not sure it has really changed me that much.

The pluses are many and I know that for dh they completely outweigh the minuses because he too gets far more upset about stories of children dying etc than he ever used to. He sees himself as a much nicer person post-ds and for him that is a massive plus.

I have noticed no difference in my reaction to these sorts of stories, I ALWAYS used to feel almost physical pain at the idea of a mother losing her child and found those stories unbearable. I personally think I am a worse and far more selfish person than I was pre-child. I am in addition to that much worse off materially. All in all having a child has not in itself improved my life or me as a person much at all. On the other hand I do love ds profoundly. This may all sound a bit contradictory, but is nonetheless all true for me.

In the end you probably can't know what having a child will actually be like for you but then like most things in life, the most potentially rewarding things involve taking a risk and having a child is one of the biggest risks there is in life.