Should we have children?

[FrankPelham]

I am 47, DW is 39. We have been together for 17 years. I have a 28-year old daughter as a result of a teenage "holiday fling", she was born in America and at her mother's request has never been part of my life.

I have never wanted children and neither has DW. Until now... the ticking has started and it is loud. Many of her friends are pregnant or have babies. Sometimes DW gets very down about this situation, understandably. VERY very down.

Why don't I want children?

• Life is full. We both have many and varied interests in sports and the arts. We go out regularly, both together and individually. I don't want that to change.

• When I'm a pensioner, I don't want to be sharing my home with a teenager.

• We come and go as we please. We are both freelance journalists (on very different publications) so hours can be unpredictable and both of us sometimes work late at the office. Also, both of us often go climbing with friends (or camping, etc) for the weekend at very short notice. I don't want that to change.

• I love PEACE at home. During quiet weekends I like nothing better than to sit in our living room with the garden doors open and read the Telegraph in total silence.

• We are financially independent; we have never had a shared account; DW hates depending on other people. If we have a child, she will depend on me financially but will resent having to ask. I don't want to suddenly spend my money on anyone else and will resent being asked.

If I have children it will only be to keep DW, but my nice easy life will be ruined. And how much time will she be able to spend with me anyway? If I don't have children, DW may resent me for the rest of our days, or leave me to have children - which she is seriously considering.

What should I do? Can anybody share experiences of this situation?

I am asking in Mumsnet because after searching the internet for a suitable place to ask, there seems to be a good mixture of people here.

Nobody can really make that decision except from you and your wife. We all prob at some points miss the life we had before kids. Nobody will say that having kids is not hard work.....but then I think that the harder you work at something the more you get out of it.

And tbh having kids does not mean the 'end'..imo it is just the beginning!

You mentioned that you are a journalist....you're not writing a piece about this are you???

I think it's perfectly possible to lead an interesting and useful life without having children

I think it's perfectly possible to lead an interesting and useful life without ever having fallen in love

I think it's perfectly possible to lead an interesting and useful life without ever having had a friend

But why would you want to? Having children is a unique part of the human experience. I respect the OP's honesty, but we're obviously very different people because I can't imagine trading the ability to read the Telegraph in peace (the Telegraph! Yes, we're VERY different people ) for an experience that enlarges the human soul.

But if you aren't prepared to commit 100% to your child, then you shouldn't have children.

Its like watching your heart walk about outsdide your chest - at one moment you can be bursting with pride the next terrified for what they are about to do or what is ahead of them but truely you will never know love or pride like what you have for your child.

Good luck - I hope you come to a decision that makes you both happy.

I don;t know what you should do, but what I will say is that you shouldn't assunme that your reactions to other people's children (i.e. boredom) will be the same as your reactions to your own child.

What you find a bit tedious (and sometime intolerable) in other people's kids becomes absolutely fascinating when it's your own baby that's doing it. Honestly.

You really do fall in love with your children (well most parents do). And, without wanting to knock people who chose not to have children, I think it is one of lives great experiences and can highly recommend it!!

I think, in short, it is incredibly easy to put down on paper all the reasons not to have children and incredibly hard to put down all the reasons to have them.

I'm younger than you and we'd always wanted to have children (in principle) but had similar concerns to you. Both I and DW worked long hours and had to travel with work at very short notice. We both loved our freedom to go out whenever we wanted, wherever we wanted, either together or separately to places that would be just impossible to take children (e.g. gigs, climbing, nice restaurants and bars). We both hated the thought of that changing, especially the loss of freedom. God, I didn't even like other people's kids, just found them nail bitingly tedious and annoying.

Anyway, there was 'something' that both made us want to do it and so we did and now we have an absolutely gorgeous wonderful and fantastic little girl.

Now, like I said, on paper it's easy to list how things are 'worse' now. Everything has to be scheduled in advance, even a quick drink after work. Gigs/ dinner/ clubbing are now once a month (if that) with babysitting arranged. Holidays are based around where's best for DD not simply where we'd like to go. Our car is practical rather than gorgeous and silly. Lie-ins have largely disappeared and our TV is permanently tuned to CBeebies instead of Sky Sports. There's less money to go around than before, you worry about it more and you are more financially co-dependent.

BUT two things.

Firstly, your old life doesn't end, it just changes. We still go out to nice places. We still get stupidly drunk. We still see friends for dinner. We still both work pretty much full time. You do it less and it has to be a hell of a lot more organised but you don't give up everything you had before.

Secondly, and this is the important bit, in addition to what you had before, you have this fantastic little thing in your life which brings not only unconditional love and happiness with them but new experiences and a completely fresh aspect to life.

Life before kids is wonderful, absolutely, but I do look back and think "So?" How many great restaurants can you eat in/ rock faces can you climb/ bands can you listen to/ beaches can you lie on etc etc. before they just kind of blur into one. In ten years time, you might still be loving what you're doing but will you just be doing exactly the same stuff still and wondering if that's all there is to life?

This is absolutely not to say that you should have kids by the way or that you should have them just because your wife wants them. It's simply to say that trying to rationalize having kids impossible, it's much more like St. Augustine's leap of faith!

Which is stronger? Your attachment to your 'easy life' or your desire to stay with dw?

There's no easy answer and only you can make that call.

If you stay with dw, you have a child, and you are unsupportive/jealous of the child stealing her time, you may up parting anyway. Children (generally) cause more stress in marriages rather than the reverse. But your marriage is obviously a strong one.

As a latercomer to parenthood myself (and someone who likes their own space) I would say the most surprising thing about it is that something can be so wonderful and so terrible at the same time.

So yes, there will be terrible drudgery and disruption and frustration and tiredness, which is all very easy to convey and describe in concrete terms. However, it's much harder to describe the joy, the fulfilment, the privilege of caring for a child that you have both created together, in short the huge and overwhelming LOVE you will give and receive (you see, it just sounds crass doesn't it, but it really isn't, it's overwhelmingly miraculously fantastic, in between the vomit, the noise and the fatigue of course....)

One of the greatest gifts that children give us is they mirror back to us who we are, forcing us to look at ourselves more closely.

Others may disagree, but if you only have one child, many of the downsides you describe will resolve themselves more or less after the first 3.5 yrs ...

Sorry you are facing such a tough decision. It's an impossible choice for anyone to make for you but good luck with it.

Final thought - if I may - if you "go for it" you have to do so with your full heart and soul, be prepared to hold NOTHING back, to contribute and support wholeheartedly, be prepared to sacrifice and learn and put yourself second. So whatever decision you make, make sure it is a clear one.

Sorry for last sentence. Sounds unbelievably 'preachy' now I read it back. Not my intention.

There is a guy like you at work.

Never wanted children, craved his own space, hated noise etc, only interested in trains, rarely had girlfriends because did not like to share his space, spent most of his time working and rarely took holidays.

Then he met a woman who had 3 teenage daughters.

He has never been the same since. He does everything for them from, advice on boyfriends, helps with homework, cooks for them etc.

He has never been happier and always talks about them.

Also when I was at university doing my PHD, one of the professors, who was devoted to his work met a fellow academic who was also devoted to her work. He was 48yo and she was 44yo. Neither of them ever wanted to have children. They married and she fell pregnant with their son. When he was born, the professor did not stop dancing and cheering with joy and bought everyone a drink. It changed him and his life for the better.

You might surprise yourself.

Also, have you thought about the possibility that having a child might actually broaden your horizons rather than limit them?
Read an interesting article by John Humphrys not long ago about being an older dad (older than you I think) and how much his life has been enriched and enlarged as a result.

you might find this thread of interest

before it went hysterically funny in a downward spiral of up-its-own-arse self-actualisation it has some useful points and points of view

(and even if not it is rather amusing )

good luck in whatever you decide

I went through a phase during my first pregnancy (a bit late then you might think!) when I worried a lot about how I would react to parenthood. Worries that I particularly remember is:

1. resentment about them taking the space, not having space in the house for myself

1. resentment about money

1. not getting the sleep

1. not getting peace and quiet

1. not being able to pursue adult interests

1. not being able to have adult discussions

Looking back now (11 years later) I realise that nos 1 and 2 were based on what my feelings would have been if strangers had stayed in the house/used up my money. I didn't realise how much I would come to identify with my children, to the extent where money spent on them is really money spent on me. About space, I should have guessed- I don't really resent dh coming into my bed!

Nos 3 and 4, about peace and quiet- well, it is an issue, but really only for limited periods of time. They don't cry in the night once they're past the baby stage, they're at school a lot of the day once they're 4, and even when they are little, it is possible to arrange childcare if you want to get away.

Nos 5 and 6 were the ones where I was totally out. For an academic, a growing family just means another audience! More people to share with! I have started running my research papers past my daughter, she comes with me to the opera, and we discuss books. Little brother makes a good companion for walks in the countryside. If travelling is your thing, it is perfectly possible to go touring the continent with a toddler- my brother took his 2yo ds on the train from Sweden to Italy.

This is not to say that having children is for everyone. Some people really don't want to and shouldn't be forced to. Others may simply be unaware of how they would react. Unfortunately, it is difficult to judge from your reactions to other people's children; even some very experienced and loving parents have difficulty with the offspring of their friends.

If you really love your dw then go ahead and have a baby!

You have financial security and a strong relationship, and none of your given reasons sound much of an issue to me. I anticipate that you will find unimagined amounts of joy in parenthood.

Your own child will be endlessly fascinating and charming in a way that other people's are not! And you will discover a whole new world and a whole new perspective on life...it's kind of like being re-born yourself in many ways.

Sometimes it is hard going, but it is SO WORTH IT!!! I speak as an accidental mother.

I have briefly read some of the other posts so apologise if this is repetitive of what has been said already, but i shall say my bit anyway

When i was younger and was planning my life i never thought i'd have children until much later in my life - when i thought i would have 'lived' my life enough to then have children and not resent never having done anything.

When i was 20 i met DP 3wks later we found i was pg it was very hard we'd only just met, didn't know each other, we hadn't done all the things we wanted too etc etc all the reasons NOT to were staring us in the face - But we eventually decided that we both wanted to go ahead

I will never regret that decision and neither will DP, we have been together 10 years now and have 4 DC, it has suited us very well to become parents, Yes our life style has changed but we have babysitters, we still go out, we still go away for weekends on our own, we still do other 'selfish' things the only thing that has changed for me is that I have 4 little people in my life that have enriched it beyond belief, other things can wait

Spontaneity goes out of the window i'm afraid though!

I guess i'm just saying that you can never plan for these things no matter how hard you try. it will always be different to how you think it will be but for most of us on here that change has been for the better

I agree with those on here who have already pointed out that you will never regret having a child but may regret not having one(although i know you do have a daughter, just different situation)

Can i just ask if it is something that you are scared of? the situation you were in when you were younger with your daughter's mum was obviously different, but are you worried about maybe missing out on another child's life should you choose to have one with your DW and then 'regret' it and not be involved with this DC either

I don't know your situation with your daughter and her mum or your DW, but maybe a part of you is scared to do it again and loose out again

PS have just broken off from cooking supper to say that it says alot about the inexplicable joys of parenting if,in response to someone posting that they:don't want to be tied down, like peace & quiet, don't want to contribute financially, don't want children, most of us reply "go for it"!!!

I think you have to answer your own question - and pretty quickly. If your DW wants children, she has to get a move on, and if you don't give them to her, it's better you separate, or I'm telling you, she will resent you for the rest of her life.

Just to add - my DH was 40 when our son was born. He didn't particularly want children for most of his life. I think he 'gave in' because I desperately wanted a baby, and he wanted me. It has been the making of us as a couple. He is a terrific father, and is now hassling me about having no.2 before he gets too old!

I would be very surprised if you find you get bored with your own children. We were both in a mid 30's when we had kids, had a wonderful life, lots of exotic holidays and I guess we were both spoilt, could do what we wanted when we wanted and had the money to do so.

However, my life is so much fuller now we had children, OK we cant do so many exotic holidays (though they have been to Oz twice) and we havent got so much money (I gave up work) but they do give more than then take away (most of the time).

Such a tricky one. I don't think dh had ever really thought about having children before he met me. But then, I think he thought that he would never be married either. But ask him now if he could bear to be without ds .....

Try asking men with children how they feel. The men I know who weren't bothered about kids before they had them are without exception nuts about them now! I think the best insight will come from your own sex onthis one.

To be honest at 39 she's probably left it far too late. Fertility plummets at 35.

I have 5 and from about age 14 it's the main thing I wanted to do as well as my career. I was lucky to start early.

What was agreed when you got together? If you always said she could then it's not fair to stop her now. If you love her then you will probably only keep her by letting her try for a baby.

Few people have a child and wish they haven't so my advice is go ahead (and be comforted that she probably won't get pregnant anyway) and insist you see your other child. It's absolutely dreadful you have not been able to be in her life, a massive moral wrong in my view.

The fact that she is considering leaving you if you don't want children tells me how much she wants them.

oh honestly xenia. 80% of people who try for a baby at 40 will be pg within the year.

xenia, you are not a fertility expert fhs.