Should we have children?

[FrankPelham]

I am 47, DW is 39. We have been together for 17 years. I have a 28-year old daughter as a result of a teenage "holiday fling", she was born in America and at her mother's request has never been part of my life.

I have never wanted children and neither has DW. Until now... the ticking has started and it is loud. Many of her friends are pregnant or have babies. Sometimes DW gets very down about this situation, understandably. VERY very down.

Why don't I want children?

• Life is full. We both have many and varied interests in sports and the arts. We go out regularly, both together and individually. I don't want that to change.

• When I'm a pensioner, I don't want to be sharing my home with a teenager.

• We come and go as we please. We are both freelance journalists (on very different publications) so hours can be unpredictable and both of us sometimes work late at the office. Also, both of us often go climbing with friends (or camping, etc) for the weekend at very short notice. I don't want that to change.

• I love PEACE at home. During quiet weekends I like nothing better than to sit in our living room with the garden doors open and read the Telegraph in total silence.

• We are financially independent; we have never had a shared account; DW hates depending on other people. If we have a child, she will depend on me financially but will resent having to ask. I don't want to suddenly spend my money on anyone else and will resent being asked.

If I have children it will only be to keep DW, but my nice easy life will be ruined. And how much time will she be able to spend with me anyway? If I don't have children, DW may resent me for the rest of our days, or leave me to have children - which she is seriously considering.

What should I do? Can anybody share experiences of this situation?

I am asking in Mumsnet because after searching the internet for a suitable place to ask, there seems to be a good mixture of people here.

Frank, Pan has being trying to talk to you over here (the thread on dadsnet where I linked this) I think he wants a reply !

I went out with someone who didn't want children. I did. So I left him. He made his choice, I made mine. Agree about not baling out 6 months into it.

Make sure your wife doesn't have some romantic notion of it either. I did. I assumed I would be gaily skipping round with neat little polite children at my feet and that they would all be house trained by the time they were 5. The reality is that we have one severely disabled child and 2 other noisy nutters and all 3 have personalities that they exert at will. I assumed my children would be carbon copies of me. The difference in reality/fantasy for us has never really mattered because we both wanted children- that's as far as we thought about it. No further analysis was needed. I don't think its something you can analyse to be honest as you have no idea which child you'll end up with. You either go for it or you don't.

Er, Frank, could I just mention that if you decide against it all, and your DW is looking for a likely partner, I have a colleague who is desparate to find a woman he loves and who wants children. His last couple of relationships have broken up because at 42 he has foolishly been in relationships with much younger women and they do not wnat children - yet, anyway. I think he would suit your DW - he works in the arts, loves long-distance trekking, very sociable etc.

I was just thinking - maybe I could introduce him to your DW, and his former girlfriends to you. What do you think?

Oh yes, and I have a sweet young BIL who might be up for her too.

I don't find child-free by choice people selfish for not wanting their lives compromised.

A lot of my very dear friends never wanted children and they're anything but selfish.

But you know, if possible, you should really really want to have them before you do, because they derail your life as you knew it.

For the better, those who us who had them and wanted them will say.

But for everyone whose partner was on the fence or talked into it and then 'fell in love' with baby once it was born, there's someone whose relationship is no longer extant.

Your points are valid, Frank. They are teh same ones my ex h had - in addition to an inherited form of a severe depression and a desire to engage in risky sports - and I think it's cruel and insulting to say someone is selfish for having such points.

It'd be far more selfish to have a kid and then not be happy about how it's affected your life.

That being said, our marriage ended because he didn't want children.

And that was painful.

But then I married someone else who wanted them and he married someone else who didn't and now we're both far, far happier.

Best of luck to you, Frank, but you know, if you've thought about it as long as you have, and you feel the way you've stated you do over and over, I just wouldn't go there.

I didn't have a romanticised notion of how it was going to be, everyone here knows I'm both a cynic and a pessimist, but it was harder than even I expected.

Soemthing else to consider. I developed severed post-natal depression after both my girls were born.

I cringe to imagine what this would have done to our marriage had I been married to a man who hadn't 100% wanted kids with me.

Also, like yurt, one of our children is disabled. Not anywhere nearly as severely as yurt's, but she has learning difficulties and delays which are becoming more and more apparent.

We're back on the merry-go-round of speech therapy, occupational therapy, assessments by paeds and now, visits with an educational psychologist as she prepares to enter school.

There's no guarantee that your kids will be healthy or remain so.

And part of having kids is accepting that.

I've flicked through this thread and for me it basically comes down to the fact that you may lose your wife or at least seriously damage your relationship if you don't try to have children. On the other hand, she may lose YOU if you have children and resent her forever for it.

You need to talk this through with her in some serious depth. Maybe this thread will give you a starter for 10?

Btw - Xenia - not everyone's fertility 'plummets at 35' I am 35 and got pregnant the second month of trying. But at 39 it is likely it will take longer than for an 18 year old - obviously.

read this

We are sitting at lunch when my daughter casually mentions that she and her husband are thinking of "starting family." "We're taking a survey," she says, half-joking. "Do you think I should have a baby?" "It will change your life," I say, carefully keeping my tone neutral. "I know," she says, "No more sleeping in on weekends, no more spontaneous vacations...." But that is not what I meant at all. I look at my daughter, trying to decide what to tell her. I want her to know what she will never learn in childbirth classes. I want to tell her that the physical wounds of child bearing will heal, but that becoming a mother will leave her with an emotional wound so raw that she will forever be vulnerable. I consider warning her that she will never again read a newspaper without asking "what if that had been my child?" that every plane crash, every house fire will haunt her. That when she sees pictures of starving children, she will wonder if anything could be worse than watching your child die. I look at her carefully manicured nails and stylish suit and think that no matter how sophisticated she is, becoming a mother will reduce her to the primitive level of a bear protecting her cub. That an urgent call of "mom!" will cause her to drop a soufflé or her best crystal without a moment's hesitation. I feel I should warn her that no matter how many years she has invested in her career, she will be professionally derailed by motherhood. She might arrange for childcare, but one day she will be going into an important business meeting and she will think of her baby's sweet smell. She will have to use every ounce of her discipline to keep from running home, just to make sure her baby is all right. I want my daughter to know that everyday decisions will no longer be routine. That a five year old boy's desire to go to the men's room rather than the women's at McDonald's will become a major dilemma. That right there, in the midst of clattering trays and screaming children, issues of independence and gender identity will be weighed against the prospect that a child molester may be lurking in that restroom. However decisive she may be at the office, she will second-guess herself instantly as a mother. Looking at my attractive daughter, I want to assure her that eventually she will shed the pounds of pregnancy, but she will never feel the same about herself. That her life, now so important, will be of less value to her once she has a child. That she would give it up in a moment to save her offspring, but will also begin to hope for more years-not to accomplish her own dreams, but to watch her child accomplish theirs. I want her to know that a cesarean scar or shiny stretch marks will become badges of honor. My daughter's relationship with her husband will change, but not in the way she thinks. I wish she could understand how much more you can love a man who is careful to powder the baby or who never hesitates to play with his child. I think she should know that she will fall in love with him again for reasons she would now find very unromantic. I wish my daughter could sense the bond she will feel with women throughout history who have tried to stop war, prejudice and drunk driving. I hope she will understand why I can think rationally about most issues, but become temporarily insane when I discuss the threat of nuclear war to my children's future. I want to describe to my daughter the exhilaration of seeing your child learn to ride a bike. I want to capture for her the belly laugh of a baby who is touching the soft fur of a dog or a cat for the first time. I want her to taste the joy that is so real, it actually hurts. My daughter's quizzical look makes me realize that tears have formed in my eyes. "You'll never regret it," I finally say. Then I reach across the table squeeze my daughter's hand and offer a silent prayer for her, and for me, and for all of the mere mortal women who stumble their way into this most wonderful of callings.

its life changing and wonderful

that was lovely, but some paragraphs would have been even better

Blu - if Frank doesn't want to send his DW your colleague's way, could you send him my way please? He sounds perfect!

I've got a lovely friend who might like him too

I wish you ladies had been around after my divorce from the ex, after which I spent two years looking for someone interested in procreating with me and finally gave up and left the country, only to find a suitable match not even a month after arriving here.

DP and i didn't get serious the first time we had a relationship because I was 'playing it cool' about wanting children as I was given to understand that men ran a mile from women in their 30's wanting a child. He wandered off because he thought I wasn't serious and didn't want a child.

Then, after intervening hoo-hah, we got back together and I was pg within 3 months!

oh sorry that thing above is boak

Really agree with everything expat said.

thing - being piece of prose- not a person

(Spent too long wading through SN versions of the same sort of stuff).

ok cut-n-paste a couple of posts from Dadsnet last night.....oops!

and...

Phew!!

though ~I see we have moved on a little since then..

Oh yes, I boaked too, I must confess.

But then just at the moment I would even read the Telegraph if I could get some peace and quiet. Don't do it, Frank .

I gave up on ever finding a decent chap, so had a fling with someone Not My Type just for the hell of it. I was pg within five months.

copied and pasted piece from another site

I like it even if some of you don't

ssd, i liked it. had me in tears. but then i'm in the midst of some serious pg hormones...

Are you willing to be educated??

Not sure what you mean. I'm pretty open to new experiences. I'm broad-minded and tolerant. And very patient.

Do you have intimate male friends?

A few. Some say "You'll be a great Dad!", others say "Don't do it". Their opinions vary, much like here.

Oh, no, never take life advice from a cut and pasted item!

Reminds me too much of that 'Going to Holland instead of Italy' crap or all those 'God choses parents of SN children because they're so special' - pass the bucket!!!

I'm going to paraphrase an MN who responded to a thread about how to convince a person in his mid-40s to marry his girlfriend and procreate.

'Why would you convince anyone to have kids?'

Amen, even though I love them to bits.

It'a leap of faith. I agree with expat; you must want to do this on your own behalf rather than your DW's.

But I have to say being a parent has been and is the greatest honour and privelege of my life.

Children are such a lovely way to start off human beings

and no, before I had ds, at 35, I was NOT maternal and did NOT want a baby so I have been floored and stunned by the whole experience - but I knew I wanted a child and I thought I could give a child a lovely childhood.