Should we have children?

[FrankPelham]

I am 47, DW is 39. We have been together for 17 years. I have a 28-year old daughter as a result of a teenage "holiday fling", she was born in America and at her mother's request has never been part of my life.

I have never wanted children and neither has DW. Until now... the ticking has started and it is loud. Many of her friends are pregnant or have babies. Sometimes DW gets very down about this situation, understandably. VERY very down.

Why don't I want children?

• Life is full. We both have many and varied interests in sports and the arts. We go out regularly, both together and individually. I don't want that to change.

• When I'm a pensioner, I don't want to be sharing my home with a teenager.

• We come and go as we please. We are both freelance journalists (on very different publications) so hours can be unpredictable and both of us sometimes work late at the office. Also, both of us often go climbing with friends (or camping, etc) for the weekend at very short notice. I don't want that to change.

• I love PEACE at home. During quiet weekends I like nothing better than to sit in our living room with the garden doors open and read the Telegraph in total silence.

• We are financially independent; we have never had a shared account; DW hates depending on other people. If we have a child, she will depend on me financially but will resent having to ask. I don't want to suddenly spend my money on anyone else and will resent being asked.

If I have children it will only be to keep DW, but my nice easy life will be ruined. And how much time will she be able to spend with me anyway? If I don't have children, DW may resent me for the rest of our days, or leave me to have children - which she is seriously considering.

What should I do? Can anybody share experiences of this situation?

I am asking in Mumsnet because after searching the internet for a suitable place to ask, there seems to be a good mixture of people here.

Both working and paying for childcare is the modern way and also was the way of all women world wide actually who have always had to work (except the privileged few) - working and having chidlren is the norm. There are a very few strange women (and a few men) around who can choose to be economically inactive but many of those get degression although some seem to enjoy housework and cleaning up after children.. but it's certainly not a victorian way to go to work and see your lovely child in the evening. It's what most working women do in the UK.

I agree with Xenia

I don't think children have to disrupt your life that much to be honest. Especially not if you are financially comfortable but there are ways and means even if you aren't.

It's a personal choice - if you choose to become parental hermits then your life will shift dramatically and probably your happiness but it's entirely possible to still go out and have parties etc, it won't do your dcs any harm. You just need to be organised.

Separate accomodation is a daft idea- one way to resentment. Unless your dw really doesn't mind doing everything whilst you swan around protecting your peace.

Xenia is right that the clock is very much ticking for your wife- your wife sounds aware of that, so I would decide one way or another pretty soon, or if she wants children bad enough she'll leave anyway.

I often crave peace. But I wouldn't swap my children for peace - especially peace to read the Torygraph (you could read it at night after they're in bed with a glass of wine in your hand).

Hope you work it out - my DH and I found ourselves in similar position. DH relented and DS was born 3 years ago. All the things you are worrying about can still be done with a little planning i.e babysitters etc. And you will find yourself doing lots more things you never dreamed about and having loads of fun doing them.

Other peoples kids bore most people if they are honest - they are not their own little treasures.

Children travel - DS could get to Oz on his airmiles

Noise is sometimes beautiful

and when you are being fed grapes and asked for a love then you know its time to get off MN and have some fun!

Hope it works out for you

Having said all that it just occurred to me that you are probably only going to get the plus side of opinion on here. Not many people without kids (unless looking for advice like you) will be loggin onto a parenting site so you will not really get the flip side of the coin.

Once again hope your decision is the right one

Xenia, by Victorian, I meant coming home in the evening and not even looking forward to seing and caring for any child be it lovely !

What the OP wants is put the music on, have a cocktail and a la rigueur pat a child on the head with a nod.

All I'm saying is some people do it. But that WILL most certainly make the mother resentful AND the child hatefull.

Now a very intimate question to OP:

Does your wife know about the teenage fling and the impact of that on your decision not to have children.
Is that something you have come to terms with yourself?

Listen, mate, your issue is as it seems to me:

Do I want to stay with my partner, given that she wants to have children, or do I want to leave?

There is no reason why your wife shouldn't conceive quite easily. There's no reason why you shouldn't both go on earning, and keeping independent financial bank accounts. I am a journalist who got up the duff (without ahem 'trying') at 37 and has maintained an independent career and finances in the ensuing seven years. I am even reliably informed some people manage to go out sometimes.

Having said all that obviously a child will ruin/disrupt/change a lot of the life you have now. It is not, I find, madly peaceful. One tangles with all sorts of things, from nappy bags to party bags, that one would rather not. You may find that the pleasure of having children over-rides it all - or you may not. You're not going to get a lot of people on a parenting site telling you not to go for it, are you.

But your wife does want children. So it's really up to you to decide whether or not to do it, and I'm afraid you'll only know through doing it, but if you do agree, you have to agree to be whole-hearted and follow it through and not walk out six months into the whole project at the horror of the pram in the hallway. Oh, and get childcare if you're going to keep working, both of you.

Does your wife know about the teenage fling and the impact of that on your decision not to have children.
Is that something you have come to terms with yourself?

Yes and yes.

You're not going to get a lot of people on a parenting site telling you not to go for it, are you

I wanted to hear the opinions of parents. I wondered if the response might be "You sound like a COMPLETE SELFISH B you should NEVER have children". But actually the response is mostly "You sound like a normal bloke".

I think there's something wrong if children DON'T disrupt your life tbh ...

Sorry. I don't think you sound like a normal bloke. I think you sound like an extreme version of many men.

No offence but I think people are being kind because once you've had children you naturally want to indoctrinate others about the delights they are missing out on!!

Yes, a lot of the blokes I've been out with have said oh no they didn't want kids and generally made me unhappy about it all. If that makes you feel normal.

In fact, on reflection in fact, I think you sound like an extreme version of "some" men not many ...

sorry too many 'in facts'

I do admire your honesty though Frank.

While a lot of others do, in fact, want children. Sorry, Frank, but I'm not quite sure what you're after here. You have come to a parenting site to ask whether or not you should reproduce, which is actually by its nature a rather biased place to ask the question. And now you appear to be reassured by being Normal. Some men want kids. Some don't. Some women(fewer, but I know a number) don't want kids. Some do. You pays yer money you takes yer choice. Fact is, your wife wants them. So your decision is not about 'we', it is about 'I'.

actually, i know of more women that DON'T want kids than men.

You are a normal bloke.
If DH (and me too tbh) knew what a life changing situation it was to have kids we would have waited.
I was 30 and DH 33 when DS1 born and the first 3 years were hard work.

But I tell you what: we carried on partying with childless friends and took DS to St tropez & St Barths as well as the venice carnival and more exotic islands in the indian ocean and temples in the far east.
And DH has been to rio and diving in australia and skying with mates. And me on weekends to Paris and Brussels and Marrakech with mine.
DH continues to play golf and I still go out and on my own.
There are great sitters out there. You CAN compromise.

Reduced sleep patterns would be tougher for you of course because you are ancient

It would be unfair to father a child you didn't want.
And unfair of your DW to ask you to.

tmmj - that thought had crossed my mind!
MN is a wonderful source of research material.

MMJ
Frank, we will sue for copyrights if you do that!

article in the torygraph this weekend

Not from me. My field is more "Sheds And Outbuildings Monthly" I'm afraid.

Reduced sleep patterns would be tougher for you of course because you are ancient

Surprisingly, as I've got older I've found the opposite to be true.

Normal? I dunno, I don't think you sound particularly normal.

Wanting to read the Telegraph sounds a leetle bit odd, but enough people do it for it not be classed as abnormal in itself.

Having children is normal, but again enough people chose not to, for it not to be classed as an abnormal lifestyle choice.

But preferring reading the Telegraph to having children - why that's BARKING.

Some things are too important to compromise, If you don't want children don't have them, If your DW does then she should, maybe that will not be together.

The points you made in your OP are very selfish ones though and all problems that can be resolved.

I am a SAHM, I used to have a very high powered job and decided I didn't want kids for someone else to raise them, this is a purely personal decision and lots of womaen work and maintain there independence, however if your DW didn't work there is no reason she couldn't be totally independent. I have always controlled our money so I know what I have for the dc and what we have for ourselves. You just pay the bills and split whats left, if you would resent doing this for your DW then you really should not be considering having children with her.

If you did decide to go ahead, your DW would need support and I think you would probably say at a later date when things were hard, 'you wanted the baby', personally I would think very very carefully if you are willing to change, not your life but what sounds like essentially your whole outlook.
Sorry for going on a bit.

spontaneous reduced sleep patterns?
you already hit that stage?
You ARE ancient

In all honesty, wish you both the best. Sincerely hope she can come to terms with it, but it is very unfair to ask her to.
It's heartbbreaking for both of you.

An interesting thread.. Hello Frank.

Well, I am way down the line with kids (2 DDs 19 and 16) and I was a late starter (similar age to your wife, DH 5 years older than me). I had a good career so it was a huge decision for the both of us.

Despite all that, it was THE best thing I have ever ever done... my kids are my greatest achievement in my life. Ever.

We have been abroad every single year since youngest was 10 months old.. they can slot into your life up to a point. DH and I were both set in our ways having met later in life, and although they DCs changed our life enormously, we have always both had our freedom at some point to do what we want. Of course that has meant me on holiday with my girlfriends, him with his mates... but, hey, you adapt and change, and it is all for the better.

Forgive me for saying, but I think you are sounding sooo set in your ways and you can't carry on into old age like that. I have never stopped reading the newspapers or had my private time...OK its not at the right time of day (!) but you can still be selfish at times, especially with just one child.

Forget the teenage worries and being an older dad. It is no problem whatsoever. Teens rejuvenate you. You look at life differently and question your beliefs and views on life, because they do. To be a spectator on the sidelines with teens is a total and utter privilege. You learn from them... they have such optimism and none of the cynicism of adults... my DD1 honestly believes she is going to change the world. To be even a small part of that is truly wonderful.