Should we have children?

[FrankPelham]

I am 47, DW is 39. We have been together for 17 years. I have a 28-year old daughter as a result of a teenage "holiday fling", she was born in America and at her mother's request has never been part of my life.

I have never wanted children and neither has DW. Until now... the ticking has started and it is loud. Many of her friends are pregnant or have babies. Sometimes DW gets very down about this situation, understandably. VERY very down.

Why don't I want children?

• Life is full. We both have many and varied interests in sports and the arts. We go out regularly, both together and individually. I don't want that to change.

• When I'm a pensioner, I don't want to be sharing my home with a teenager.

• We come and go as we please. We are both freelance journalists (on very different publications) so hours can be unpredictable and both of us sometimes work late at the office. Also, both of us often go climbing with friends (or camping, etc) for the weekend at very short notice. I don't want that to change.

• I love PEACE at home. During quiet weekends I like nothing better than to sit in our living room with the garden doors open and read the Telegraph in total silence.

• We are financially independent; we have never had a shared account; DW hates depending on other people. If we have a child, she will depend on me financially but will resent having to ask. I don't want to suddenly spend my money on anyone else and will resent being asked.

If I have children it will only be to keep DW, but my nice easy life will be ruined. And how much time will she be able to spend with me anyway? If I don't have children, DW may resent me for the rest of our days, or leave me to have children - which she is seriously considering.

What should I do? Can anybody share experiences of this situation?

I am asking in Mumsnet because after searching the internet for a suitable place to ask, there seems to be a good mixture of people here.

I don't think you should only "do it for your wife". That worries me. If you decide to go ahead, I personally think it should be based on a conscious decision that you are prepared to be a parent yourself.

I suspect a lot of men just get into it by accident and then accept it rather than taking rational decisions to breed at XYZ time if you did a survey on MN of how various women got pregnant.

I've only read the OP.

I'd say you set out very well why you don't want any more children.

And there is nothing wrong with how you feel or your decision, IMO.

If I were in your shoes, I would not have children.

I would not have a child and then hope it all worked out and I felt differently.

I think that's some seriously flawed thinking.

MP - I think 8% is too low. See here

But Xenia - you love babies but you don't like looking after them, do you? The vast majority of families wouldn't have mother returning to full time work 2 weeks after birth - and 5 times at that!

Your attitudes to family life are far from the norm, and I suspect that you were unusual to be quite so interested in childbirth at 14.

At that age I said I'd never get married unless I was allowed to marry a horse

Well we all differ but a lot of girls are more broody than other girls from an early age. I have really enjoyed having babies and over 23 years spend huge amounts of time with them by choice despite working full time. I certainly would never have wanted to look after a baby all day every day and most men and many women don't want to but that doesn't mean we're some how disqualified from being called proper parents - we still do lots of parenting.

My sister didn't want children for years, used to visit me to put her off too with all mine... and then in her 30s she changed her mind. Some women are like that too although in her case she decided to have them by IVF rather than the complications of involving men. At least she hasn't had to fund a huge pay off to an ex husband like I did.

I think Xenia is Nicola Horlick

i'm late to this thread and am a lot younger than yourself and dw. i was 19 when we had our first dd. and 24 when dd3 was born.

I sometimes wonder what life would be like without my dd's and how it would be so much quieter (believe me, 3 girls can get very loud, i am dreading teenage years), and how we could just go on hols at a moments notice.

but i also consider how much they have given us. our dd's gave my dh a reason to fight to live to see them grow up, they have taught me its possible to love someone so much it hurts, how you can rely on one person so much.

nothings compares to having a little one climb into your bed for cuddles in the morning, to that sweet milky smell they have, how well they fit into your arms as they sleep, when you pick them up and they snuggle into you perfectly. to the constance amazment they find in everything, the non-stop 'why's a 2years olds can ask (20 'why' questions in 10mins today for dd3, a personal best so far), their proudness at swimming certificates, spellings tests etc.

There is something magical about your own kids, that no-one else see's, which makes me go like a soppy old moo.

Xenia you are such an old cynic

I wasn't at all interested in children until I was 30, but when I had ds1 at 32 I found that I was so besotted that I was happy to endure mental decline in order to give up my career and spend 24 hours a day with him.

You do come across as rather emotionally detached, sometimes, though you obviously throw yourself wholeheartedly into child rearing in your own unique way.

Oh and in answer to the op, yes, children are everything

Life is full. We both have many and varied interests in sports and the arts. We go out regularly, both together and individually. I don't want that to change. CHILDREN ENRICH LIFE IMMEASURABLY. IF YOU DO HAVE CHILDREN YOU WILL LOOK BACK ON YOUR COMMENT WRYLY AND THINK "WELL I JUST DIDN'T KNOW WHAT FULL MEANT"

• When I'm a pensioner, I don't want to be sharing my home with a teenager. VALID OBJECTION BUT YOU WON'T BE THINKING IN THE ABSTRACT, YOU'LL BE THINKING IN THE PARTICULAR AND IT'LL SEEM FINE

• We come and go as we please. We are both freelance journalists (on very different publications) so hours can be unpredictable and both of us sometimes work late at the office. Also, both of us often go climbing with friends (or camping, etc) for the weekend at very short notice. I don't want that to change. LITTLE BIT SET IN OUR WAYS ARE WE? EVERYTHING HAS TO CHANGE ANYWAY ...

• I love PEACE at home. During quiet weekends I like nothing better than to sit in our living room with the garden doors open and read the Telegraph in total silence. OH GOD YOU ARE BEYONG SET IN YOUR WAYS AND HEADING FOR DECREPITUDE

• We are financially independent; we have never had a shared account; DW hates depending on other people. If we have a child, she will depend on me financially but will resent having to ask. I don't want to suddenly spend my money on anyone else and will resent being asked. I AM A MOTHER AND I AM FINANCIALLY INDEPENDENT SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOUR DW SHOULD BE DEPENDENT ON YOU ALL OF A SUDDEN - ESPECIALLY AS YOU SOUND LIKE SUCH A MISERABLE OLD SOD

If I have children it will only be to keep DW, but my nice easy life will be ruined. And how much time will she be able to spend with me anyway? If I don't have children, DW may resent me for the rest of our days, or leave me to have children - which she is seriously considering. YOU REALLY ARE A SELFCENTRED OLD SOD, YOU NEED OT HAVE CHILDREN TO STOP BEING LIKE THIS - IT IS BAD FOR YOU

can't tell you how much love you would feel and how different that loveis from any other love yo will feel.

Quattrocento - have you been on the juice?

Did your children drive you to it?

Get off the fence Quattrocento

Oh and Misdee's post summed up what I couldn't express. Especially the way they go 'Wowwwwww!' as soon as they can speak. Makes you see things afresh.

With regard to your DW's age, it may be that it's too late for her to conceive anyway, but not necessarily: I had a totally unplanned pregnancy at 39 and now have an unexpected but much loved (even when he's being a little sod) DS.
It's certainly true that there is a much stronger ethical case for not having children or at least not breeding your own - the world is overpopulated and there are lots of orphaned or otherwise unwanted children who need a good home: how would you and your DW feel about fostering or adopting a child?
Basically, you know yourself. If you really hate the idea, then you need to be honest with her about it - the one thing you mustn't do is dither on for another couple of years letting her hope that you might change your mind. Because she doesn't have the luxury of much time.

I am reluctantly sober 40+, thank you for asking, though obviously not especially intriguing but that's another thread.

Do not do it. It is not fair to conceive a child so that your DW will stay with you. You will be a grumpy, miserable dad always telling the child to be quiet and resenting their intrusion into your lovely life.

my dp never wanted kids. never had any till his 40's.
is now a very happy father of 4. theres nothing like it.

youre in last chance saloon, buddy.

personally, ill only ever regret the things i didnt do... not the ones i did.

Has anyone ever heard anyone say 'I wish I'd spent less time with my children'?

Peop[e often say they only regret the things they didn't do rather than the things they did

I guess I must just be unusual then

Oh... there are a few things I've done that I regret - mostly involving men

Crikey the OP sounds just like my sister (she doesn't want children). And she is a an 'old' person at 42. Moaning about the amount of tax she pays for schools and how people shouldn't have kids unless they can afford it.
I think your life is completely and utterly BORING. I would much rather spend a sunny afternoon in the woods explaining to an excited child the wonders of life the universe and everything, than going camping with the same old people that you saw last week, speaking about the same old things, doing the same old thing. There is not enough variety in the world to not include children.

Hey FrankPelham
I'm posting this at nearly 2am because 8 week DS is sleeping on me. Hey ho.
I'm also a freelance journo and it's been a godsend given DS's sleep problems.
Honestly, I was more into kids than DW for a long time, then we flip flopped. After trying for a year it frightened the life out of me when DW fell pregnant, and friends didn't help by going through the old "it'll change your life, you won't be doing this or that anymore". Well it does change things but now he's here I wouldn't be without DS for anything, even though sleep is something I'm having to live without. I'm a bit younger than you, mid 30s, but was also very comfortable with the life I had pre DS. But if your relationship is good there is no reason to throw out all the things you like. You just have to adapt a little. Seriously, you might find your surprised if/when it happens.

Do you love your wife more than you love reading the telegraph in complete silence?

I can recommend having just the one child, you do get some quiet time, especially as they get older and get engrossed in things. Dh was cold on the idea of children - but once it was the idea of having one he could deal with that.

We have one, we are happy with one. So could the idea of agreeing to one (rather than children as per your original post) seem more like something you could do?

Have you considered separate accommodation?
She goes on to have baby, you keep your peace and freedom of movement (except sentimental) and date as lovers?
Maybe with time you could become more involved, who knows?

I totally get how you feel except the bit about money.
If you have enough of it, you could have a nanny and do it the victorian way. You'd only get to kiss the brat once a day when it's clean and fed and ready to be whisked off behind closed doors to sleep.

Honestly, I'm not taking the piss here, I know a lot of people who do it that way.