Should we have children?

[FrankPelham]

I am 47, DW is 39. We have been together for 17 years. I have a 28-year old daughter as a result of a teenage "holiday fling", she was born in America and at her mother's request has never been part of my life.

I have never wanted children and neither has DW. Until now... the ticking has started and it is loud. Many of her friends are pregnant or have babies. Sometimes DW gets very down about this situation, understandably. VERY very down.

Why don't I want children?

• Life is full. We both have many and varied interests in sports and the arts. We go out regularly, both together and individually. I don't want that to change.

• When I'm a pensioner, I don't want to be sharing my home with a teenager.

• We come and go as we please. We are both freelance journalists (on very different publications) so hours can be unpredictable and both of us sometimes work late at the office. Also, both of us often go climbing with friends (or camping, etc) for the weekend at very short notice. I don't want that to change.

• I love PEACE at home. During quiet weekends I like nothing better than to sit in our living room with the garden doors open and read the Telegraph in total silence.

• We are financially independent; we have never had a shared account; DW hates depending on other people. If we have a child, she will depend on me financially but will resent having to ask. I don't want to suddenly spend my money on anyone else and will resent being asked.

If I have children it will only be to keep DW, but my nice easy life will be ruined. And how much time will she be able to spend with me anyway? If I don't have children, DW may resent me for the rest of our days, or leave me to have children - which she is seriously considering.

What should I do? Can anybody share experiences of this situation?

I am asking in Mumsnet because after searching the internet for a suitable place to ask, there seems to be a good mixture of people here.

there's no way that you've left it far too late at 39, fertility diminishes, yes but not to that degree Xenia.

I know far more people who've had first babies in their late 30s than those who haven't been able to.

A lot of people who don't have children are totally self absorbed - I know I was prior to children. Among the good things it teachers you is deferred gratification/ putting others before yourself etc. I found all that process painful, but I am glad that I have become a more rounded person now(apologies for the americanism)

Tbh you do sound a bit self absorbed (sorry, being frank rather than trying to antagonise you)

Only read OP so this may already have been said, but I think that if you are unable to think of any positives to having children or to muster any enthusiasm about the prospect, you would be doing any children a tremendous disservice by having them just to please your dw. However, you need to be sure that you are very clear with her that children will NEVER be on the agenda as far as you are concerned and therefore you need to prepare yourself for the possibility that you may go your separate ways.

I would say this though, possibly the only thing worse than a noisy, chaotic life is a lonely life, but that is just my opinion.

I wish you happiness with whatever you end up doing, though.

I don't agree. The chance she's left is to ridiculously late may mean she isn't really bothered. If she was bothered she'd have got on with it before 35.

"There is a sharp decline in a woman?s ability to achieve pregnancy over age forty. The fertility rate per month is only about 5% and even with in Vitro Fertilization (IVF), the most successful infertility treatment available, the pregnancy rate is only about 10% per try. This is due to the greatly reduced number of normal eggs remaining in the ovaries of a woman over forty. Therefore, women who desire a pregnancy over 40 should seek help after only 3 months of trying to become pregnant. Estimates from embryo biopsy reveal that at least 90% of a woman?s eggs are genetically abnormal when a woman is over 40. This is explains the increased pregnancy risk over 40. The miscarriage rate is 33% at age 40. Genetically abnormal pregnancies are more common as well with an incidence of 1/38 at age 40."

Any my brother a doctor when he was nearly 40 had SIX female doctor colleagues all trying to get pregnant in their late 30s. Not a single one of them managed it. They had all left it too late.

I conceived my first child at 38, born at 39.

People have all sorts of different reasons for leaving it "so ridiculously late" as you put it Xenia. It didn't mean I wasn't bothered. It was because my personal circumstances were such that it was the first time I felt settled and "at home" and ready.

Even if op's dw wasn't "bothered" before, it doesn't mean she isn't very "bothered" now

Grrrr

er, where's the op gone?

... she said trying to distract from killing thread

WRT to fertility - yes fertility decreases significantly after 35 but that is the mean fertility and the variance is high. That means that it is very difficult to predict the fertility of individuals. A minority of women will be effectively infertile at 40 while others will be as fertile as ever - most will be somewhere in bettween. The only way to know where you are on the scale is to try.

However, at 39, you really don't want to leave it any longer if you are serious.

As to whether you should - I think it is a gamble and you have to decide whether to take the chance or not. I was 43 and dh 45 when we had dd - but had wanted kids for a while (insert long story).

If it was just about you and your dw I would think it is part of being a couple to enable and support your partners strongest goals in life. But it's not just about her - it's about the child. As someone else said - if you do this you must do it with all your heart and not begrudgingly.

er, where's the op gone?

I'm still here and reading, thanks.

Try asking men with children how they feel

I really want that opinion. Although this is mumsnet, I get the impression that some of the posters are men. I couldn't find a a "Dadsnet"?

As someone else said - if you do this you must do it with all your heart and not begrudgingly.

I don't think I can. I don't think I can be totally reassured that the things I fear will not come to pass, so I can only enter into parenthood with some doubts.

It isn't question that we can answer for you, but we can give you our experiences & you can make your choice based on them.

Here is my story...

In 2001 I left my husband because he didn't want children. He too liked the peace & quiet, the going off on short breaks at a moments notice, etc.

We married [young, I was 20] in 1994 & he had never made it a secret that he didnt want children. At the time though, a 20 yr old, new house, new husband...I wasn't thinking of children. I thought worse case senario our love would be stronger than my desire to be a mum & also hoped in my niavate [sp] thought he would change his mind.

My desire to be a mum was too strong & on suggesting we start a family he didn't want to know & I left for a while to decide what I wanted to do. Not long after I left he contacted me & said that he wanted me home, he couldn't live without me & would have a baby if is what it took to keep me.

Still madly in love with him, I agreed. Once I got pregnant I kept telling myself that if he didn't love/want the baby when it was born I could love it enough & it would want for nothing.

He didn't talk about baby stuff, refused to buy anything, reluctant to attend anti natal appointments etc. I left again, convinced that he didn't want the baby. This time my love for him wasn't enough to keep me there wondering.

After 2 months, I woke one morning to feel baby kicking inside me, I rolled over to say to him "feel this, quick" and cried when I realised he wasn't there.

This, amoung other incidents took me home to him again. Dd was born a few months later, 4 weeks early [I had pre eclampsia].

I look at him & dd [4] now, when they are playing/reading together and I wonder how I came so close to taking it all away from each of them. He ADORES her. She is his world. We had a pregnancy scare at the beginning of the year & he was clearly excited to think that we could be having #2. It was a false alarm, but it was enough for him to ask me if I wanted to try for #2.

I am now 16 weeks pregnant, he is scared at the moment, but as I am...due to the pre eclampsia.

I have since found out that his reluctance to be 'involved' with #1 was him being too scared to be involved. That if he wasn't attatched, he wouldn't hurt if something happened. I don't know the whole history, but he had a younger sibling stillborn & he couldn't help but reflect on that.

I'm waffling...I guess what I am trying to say is that you won't know until you are there, but babies do have this way of making you see things so very differently than before.

We took a HUGE risk, we could've lost everything...but we didn't. We gained a beautiful little girl who adores her daddy [for adores read 'wrapped around her finger']. The teenager thing, well hopefully after spending many years with a baby/toddler/preschooler etc, you'll be better able to live with a teen..YOUR teen & I think that THAT is what makes all the difference.

Good Luck & I hope I have made sense!

Okay, here's my story:

When I met dh I was 34 and he was 51. I was consumed with my career and told him in no uncertain terms that I had no use for having children. He said that suited him fine but if I changed my mind he would be OK with that too.

Flash forward 2 years, I start thinking (and ticking, lol!) Ds1 was born when I was 38. Dh is completely mad about him. We have since had ds2 (I was 41 when he was born) and he is also an unbelievable joy.

Yes, our lives have changed unbelievably and we go to bed much earlier many nights than we did before from the sheer exhaustion of it all. Would I change it at all? Not a chance. It's a wild ride and I'm a better person for buying a ticket. (I've had a couple of glasses of wine, so please excuse the cliche' )

I do have to admit that, even though I had adamantly stated my disdain for children early on, I would have never forgiven dh if he had refused to give it a try when my hormones took over. It was a primal thing that just took hold of me.

Even those of us who are desperate for children enter into it with some doubts so you certainly wouldn't be alone in that.

By 'with your whole heart and not begrudgingly' I don't mean with no doubts - but with a committment to parenting. As pp says - most of us have some doubts and some less than stellar moments as parents.

Frank, I've linked this thread in the Dadsnet topic so hopefully you'll get some male opinions soon.

'I love PEACE at home. During quiet weekends I like nothing better than to sit in our living room with the garden doors open and read the Telegraph in total silence.'

Well, you've convinced me on that one alone Frank, but I've got two of them so no peace for me.

• Life is full. We both have many and varied interests in sports and the arts. We go out regularly, both together and individually. I don't want that to change. - it sounds as though you are comfortable enough financially to be able to afford a babysitter once a week or so to be able to go out.

• When I'm a pensioner, I don't want to be sharing my home with a teenager. - you may not be? said child could move out, go to uni etc.

• We come and go as we please. We are both freelance journalists (on very different publications) so hours can be unpredictable and both of us sometimes work late at the office. Also, both of us often go climbing with friends (or camping, etc) for the weekend at very short notice. I don't want that to change. - you can still go camping etc with a baby. the unpredictable and late hours would be something you would need to work out though.

• I love PEACE at home. During quiet weekends I like nothing better than to sit in our living room with the garden doors open and read the Telegraph in total silence - ok total silence maybe a bit difficult, but children enjoy quiet activities too. when you want a quiet afternoon, children like nothing better than having a crafty arty session. it's not all running around like a lunatic.

• We are financially independent; we have never had a shared account; DW hates depending on other people. If we have a child, she will depend on me financially but will resent having to ask. I don't want to suddenly spend my money on anyone else and will resent being asked. - DW could go back to work if she wanted?

This is a cheesy analogy but very reflective of my experience:

Imagine there is a jar in front of you, full of pebbles. These pepples represent your nearest and dearest. The jar looks full, but you pour in some gravel and it fills the nooks and crannies in between the pebbles. The gravel represent all the other important people in your life. Again the jar looks full, but you pour in some sand and this fills in all the teeny tiny gaps between the gravel, and represents all your hobbies and interests. Never thought there was room for them as the jar looked full before but you've managed to fit it all in. And surely the jar is full now! But then comes the water. You pour it in and it really does fill the jar this time, all the miniscule spaces between the sand gains that were invisible are full. It's complete, really and truly full up and of course this represents your children. They fill in the little gaps you never knew were there in the first place.

This isn't to say of course that people without children live unfulfilled lives- that would just be plain ridiculous- but in my experience having a child has been a very broadening experience, my horizons have expanded rather than contracted.

I also think that being a parent makes you more selfish, not less- you have to really pick and choose who you want to spend time with as there is less of it available (as you'll want to spend it with your family) so I have become much more selfish with my choices and only do the things that I really want to do. Realise that I spent so much time on meaningless activities before. (As if finger painting isn't meaningless! Oh the occasional crippling boredom joys of parenting)

Good luck with your choice. Whatever you decide it will have to be the right thing for you personally so I really wish you well.

In response to Xenia's comment on fertility, I conceived my DTS when I was 38yo. Took three weeks (and yes, I was in shock that it happened so quickly).

My friend is pregnant with her first. She is 39yo and it took 3 months. I work with a lady who conceived her son when she was 45yo. It took a while because she was in a very stressful job at the time but once she left the job, was more relaxed, she fell pregnant quickly.

To OP, 39yo is not too late to start a family.

One thing that strikes me is that many of you must be single mums, but none of you had your partner leave because you wanted (or had) a child.

Frank, I've linked this thread in the Dadsnet topic so hopefully you'll get some male opinions soon.

Thanks very much - I obviously hadn't looked hard enough within Mumsnet itself!

FrankPelham

Here's a link to the Dadsnet page.

FWIW (see acronym list!) I was totally unmaternal. I went down to the hospital in labour with ds1 - looking down at my bump thinking 'I hope I'm going to like this thing when it comes out!' I don't think dh's thoughts were very different!

But from the moment ds1 arrived both dh and I have been besotted parents - it's just the best thing we've ever done. Makes the rest of your life seem cheap and shallow by comparison.

my partner left cos i had a child. i'm not sure what relevance that has though.

X-post - someone was quicker than me! Guess that must be because my brain has turned to scrambled egg since having children