What the fuck am I supposed to do now?

[Sleepfailires]

18 month DS, tried to implement gentle sleep training. The problem is he refuses to sleep in his cot. He goes down OK but then wakes 2 hours later and refuses to go back in it.

Tried ‘gentle’ sleep training, me in the room with him stroking him and reassuring him.

He went absolutely berserk when I put him back down, screaming, thrashing around, I mean really hysterical screaming. Then after twenty minutes (and I was right by the cot) he vomited.

I am an absolute wreck, I am fat, my skin is grey, I am exhausted, broken, depressed, my relationship is suffering as we get no time together, we can’t think of having another child, my work is suffering. I don’t know what to do.

Oooft OP, your posts took me right back to DD3 (who’s now 6) and if she had been my first, she’d have been my last. She utterly broke me re: sleep.

She did a stint in NICU immediately after birth due to us both having sepsis - the IV antibiotics that saved her life also fucked her GI system, resulting in GERD, which meant she was projectile vomiting/vomiting more times a day than I can count, struggled to even bottle feed (breastfeeding never established due to us both being on the brink).

The only DC I’ve ever co slept with, the only DC who would not settle into a cot, the only DC who woke every 1-2 hours, every night, for about 2 years - before finally sleeping for 4-5 hour stretches, and only started doing 8+ hours at 3.5 years old.

She would also cry hysterically in a cot, no matter what I did. She was a long, skinny baby and I’m barely 5ft, so co sleeping was a nightmare and I was also a punch bag, she also screamed if I tried to separate us with a pillow, if she wasn’t full body contact with me, she would scream.

I was a lone parent (escaped DV whilst pregnant) so had nobody to tag team with but also didn’t have a relationship to be badly impacted by the sleeping issues.

I felt like an utter failure and had nothing close to those sort of issues with DC1&2, had severe PND.

I tried everything and anything, but couldn’t afford to buy in any outside help. She was FOUR before she would sleep in her own bed, and even then I was still up and down between 3-5 times a night for months on end.

I have no suggestions because nothing worked, just solidarity.

Both of my kids were like this . Tried the self soothe everything . In the end gave up and had them in bed with us only thing that worked. Some nights when they had colds would sleep with them propped up on my lap in bed as soon as they led down couldn't breathe and would wake up. Co sleeping and dummy only things that worked. I also didn't feel comfortable with leaving them to cry it out. First child had colic. I didn't sleep for 3 months . It's hard but you'll find your own way eventually. Lots of stroking and cuddles and make sure room is dark and not too hot. Usually after getting then to sleep in our bed we would try transfer them for few hours but they always woke up. Its exhausting. We've all been there it's not you. X

This

im not a fan of co-sleeping, although it works for some but baby can still sense if you are in the room or not and will sleep better if you are around.

Have just been awake feeding baby too and can sympathise. Sounds like you need to be kinder to yourself (easier said then done when you have no time)

I’ve also noticed from reading MN threads that for ladies who go back full time baby tends to start treating nighttime as ‘time with mum.’ 18 months is still fairly young and baby defo still needs your comfort.

I used a sleep consultant OP and it was game changing.

Was he asleep at this point? If so can you make yourself up a bed somewhere else (even on the floor in the same room) and sneak off there when he has fallen asleep?

I'm so with you on this.

All the nct mums babies sleep. Mine is low sleep needs and I am dying. He is 6 months soon, people saying their toddlers are like this too makes me feel like ending it all

I am so tired I could scream

Big hugs

I agree. I thought self soothing was no longer a thing due to this for a lot of people. Leaving a baby to fall asleep in distress isn't something I'd choose . Also I read that lying next to mum regulates baby's breathing. Don't know how true that is.

18 months is quite big . Is it a proper cot or a toddler style bed?

Could you tell me a bit more about it please? I'd hire one but if they just tell me all the things I read online I think I'll scream till my eyes bleed

Do they help with mothers sleep? I'm so wound up I can't sleep even when baby eventually does

At that age my strong willed DC would poo as a tactic to get out of sleeping. DC isn't stupid and was def. playing me. He was so pleased with himself when i abandoned my attempt. So if he did it; no reaction, he was changed and put straight back. I stayed consistent and he got the message quickly that his tactic didn't work.

If they are playing you, stay strong. There's only so much poo (or vomit) they can produce. If you can, flip the mattress or stick a travel changing mat between the mattress and the sheet.

Get a proper size single bed so you can go in with him if necessary to settle him. If he thrashes around at night he may be hitting the sides of the cot. And a couple of changes of bedding including mattress protectors. And a spare pillow.

@Sleepfailires have you tried the sleep training principles without any retreat? My DS has a temper just like your little one and would be so angry shouting that they’d be sick. We stopped leaving and instead followed the principles but just in terms of putting them down then going to sit in the dark next to the cot until they were asleep. Once they were used to that we then started leaving earlier and earlier until they just went down awake but it was a much slower journey than it had been with my other child. Still all done and dusted in 2 weeks though!

You're not a shit patent. There's nothing "wrong" with your little boy- this is much more common than you might realise at this age. It's a really difficult situation you're in though.

What are his naps like in the day? Toddlers who are over tired tend to crash out fairly easily, but then wake hysterical a few hours later.

Is he too hot overnight? Even now, my kids wake up with nightmares if they get too hot.

Sending you much strength xx

So I had similar my LO didn’t vomit but would not sleep in his cot after those initial 2 hrs. What I did in desperation was turned his cot into the bed got some hey duggee bedding his fave character, popped a bed guard on, I have one of those triangular sponge ones that fits under the sheet. Now I had an inkling that this would lead him to getting out of bed multiple times which did happen but it stopped the absolute hysteria. I effectively did the method where you sit next to them a bit further away every night, placing him back to bed with a quick kiss it took about 2 weeks of consistency and we finally got it.

It sounds insane putting 18 month old in a bed but it worked for us. Hope this helps you

If you look for a sleep consultant following the possums or Lyndsey Hookway's method then they don't do CIO or gradual retreat. Not sure what they actually do mind but they must do something or they wouldn't get any business.

What about putting him in a normal bed? That's what I did with DS1 when he got too wriggly to cosleep with. At first when he woke up I'd go into his room but then this started to drive me crazy and I realised it was madness after posting on MN in desperation. So I put a gate on the stairs and left my door open and told him when he went to sleep if he needed me in the night I'd be in my room. The first night he woke up and cried, so I called through to him and then I heard him getting out of bed and padding down the corridor he then got into bed for a cuddle. I was quite happy to cosleep if he was lying still but he usually didn't so then I told him "I want to sleep. You can lie still and quiet in my bed or I can take you back to yours. What would you like to do?"

Sometimes he'd settle down, sometimes he'd continue to be wriggly and I'd take him back to his room, sometimes he'd actually choose to go back to his room. I could then leave him there and he'd generally stay in bed.

After a couple of nights he didn't cry out any more, he'd just come in if he wanted to and if he was wriggly we'd have the still and quiet or own bed chat and he'd pick one by one way or another. And after a while of this pattern (can't remember if a few weeks or months) there would be nights where he just wouldn't come in, which slowly became the norm. Putting the burden of effort on him to actually get out of bed and find me seemed to help discourage it unless he really wanted/needed to. Often the knowledge that he could was enough.

If he doesn't settle in his own bed you could always offer a floor bed in your room as the alternative option.

I've just gone through this with twins....it's been brutal. Boy twin has been by far the worst and doing exactly what you describe OP - waking up after 2 hours then screaming the place down. Refusing to go back in cot. Can't do co sleep due to thrashing around.

At first I'd just take him down stairs and put the TV on and that would enable him to at least sit quietly whilst I managed to get an hour or two sleep (I work film time so needs just - not ideal parenting I know!)

Then It was a case of lying him down every 2 mins - eventually he did give in but it would take hours

Also took to driving him around at night to get back to sleep which worked to a point - too well as he came to rely on it

Perhaps It's the "gentle" part of sleep training which is the issue. You need to get firm and back in control? I'm somewhere between vanishing chair and pick up put down. It's working though

In the UK, babies will only see a paediatrician if they've been referred by the GP. Most babies have never seen a paediatrician in their lives, many have only even seen the GP once, at their 6 week check.

My DD was a really awful sleeper, and I thought it would destroy me. In the end, this is what helped me:

Millpond Sleep techniques

The amazing Millpond Teach Your Child to Sleep book goes into real detail about how to make sleep training work.

Key things which I think made the difference were:

• You can start your intervals really short. We started at 1 minute, and increased by 30 secs each time
• But you MUST increase the interval each time. Consistency is crucial, otherwise you make things worse
• Use your voice to calm him and tell him to lie down if he's standing up. Any physical contact is enough reward to keep him going. Hopefully he'll calm when you speak to him (it surprised me how well that actually works), but even if he doesn't then you still leave after a few minutes - even if he's still standing up (assuming he's able to lie down himself!)

But do read the whole book. It's very short, but packed with info. (I'm pretty sure it did cover what to do when your baby makes himself sick.)

Choose the right age for sleep training

Bed timing is a good book which explains the different development stages and how they affect sleep and sleep training.

Unsurprisingly, it's common to try sleep training during a sleep regression (when you get desperate) but unfortunately that's when it's hardest to make it work. And yes, 18 months is unfortunately the worst sleep regression.

We broke at 9 months (also a sleep regression) and tried sleep training then. Millpond got us through it, but it was pretty awful. BUT, when we tried again during our next 'good sleep training' window (12-16 months), it worked like a dream. And it stuck (with very occasional top-ups)

Your next window is 22-28 months. So by all means try Millpond techniques now, but see it as just getting you through the next 4 months! Then try again at 22-23 months, and hopefully you'll truly crack it and start getting proper nights of sleep.

Good luck. I really hope you manage to improve his sleep - it makes a huge difference.

I’ve had shocking sleepers, so I completely empathise with where you are at. The first thing to probably do is acknowledge that your reasoning processes and decision making is impaired right now, which is really impacting on your ability to forge a path ahead. I found I fell into a bit of hopelessness and despair with number 1, so I didn’t really tackle it as proactively as I should.
You probably won’t take on board this advice as you don’t seem ready to hear it from previous threads but the first thing you need to do is book yourself into a hotel (or equivalent) for a full 48-72hrs and get some proper sleep and strength. Your DS definitely won’t accept your DH when he knows you are home, he isn’t silly. It is likely to be more successful with you out of the house for a good chunk of time.
Secondly, I’d action an ENT referral. The constant restlessness and terrible sleep were indicators of issues in mine. Surgery (tonsillectomy) was an absolute lifesaver. I’m not saying this is definitely the issue, but constant thrashing in sleep is a huge red flag for it.
Thirdly, I’d then decide what strategy you will use and stick to it. If your DH can sleep with him in the bed then I’d suggest they co-sleep. Bub will eventually settle for him. I understand that you can’t sleep while he is crying with your DH, but he is with a safe adult and is learning to be soothed by his other parent. You aren’t sleeping well anyway, so my guess is your rejection of pushing through and having your DH do it is related to the impact of sleep deprivation rather than any kind of rational reason, particularly as you said your DH is willing. It might have to be 4-6 weeks of DH doing the night settling. This would be my preference over CIO. You also need to remove any crutches for sleep that are impacting on settling - for us, rocking had become one. The night I decided to give up on it with DS1, he didn’t get to sleep until 4am. It became a lot easier over the course of a fortnight, but we really had to push through that first bit. I couldn’t have done it though until I wasn’t in a state of absolute exhaustion (hence point 1 above).
i also said I’d tried everything, but the reality was I was just trying anything and everything for a couple of days and claiming defeat. You CAN do this, but you really need yo take the proactive action of going and getting some sleep AWAY from your house.

Try "pick up, put down" where you pick them up to cuddle them, then put them down. Maybe do it over 100 times the first night. It gets easier. Might take a week but I promise you it works and my little one sleeps through. Good luck. It's not forever.

I'll be honest OP both mine were the same way til late, 3 years or so, and so we just co slept and everyone was happy. I mean not ideal romantically for me and DH but we all finally started sleeping well and we both wanted that more than anything! I don't think it's unusual to end up co sleeping die the exact reason you describe. We're all animals at the end of the day and sometimes little ones just need to be close to you! You sound half driven mad by sleep deprivation like we were so I'd highly recommend co sleeping.

God, reading this brings back nightmare memories of DD. My mother used to say not sleeping was ‘a sign of intelligence’ (wtf that means!). My response was either she or I aren’t going to live long enough to find out…..
She would sleep for 20 minutes, scream until she was sick and was 26 months old before she slept through the night.
Somehow you survive.
I tried everything, the sleep consultant was useless.
My sympathies OP 🤗

We were in a similar situation op. DS would take ages to drop off and would wake in the night screaming. If we brought him in with us, he’d just thrash about the bed and it was a nightmare especially as he was such a good sleeper as a baby. We think he was having night terrors.
When he was 18 months, we had a newborn too so we ditched the cot, bought him a single bed with a pull out trundle bed which my husband ended up sleeping on and I slept in our bedroom with our newborn and that worked a treat x

OP, even if you do absolutely nothing different, this will get better. He will develop language skills and understand better what’s going on. You haven’t messed up his sleep permanently and you’re not a bad parent. It’s just his personality and his need for comfort. It’s not you, you’re doing all the normal things but they aren’t working that well. Some of us just have kids who hate sleeping alone and it’s really hard while they learn to be more independent.
Right now, you need a few strategies to get some more sleep for yourself, even if it’s not helping the underlying problem. Chronic sleep deprivation makes everything feel so much worse.
Could you leave him with your DH and go sleep somewhere else for a night (at a friend’s or family member’s, in a hotel)? Do this on a night where your OH is not working the next day. Your toddler may well be horrendous, (although he might suprise you and be fine) but you will get a solid 10 hours and it will make everything easier for a while. Take toddler out the next day so that OH can nap. This is something you desperately need and DH needs to step up and sacrifice one night’s sleep for it. It’s also a first step to being ready to occasionally leave your son with a babysitter in the future (family, friend or professional) - sell it to DH this way - you’re working towards being able to have a night out/night away together.

On an ongoing basis, could you sometimes go to sleep super early? At the same time your child does? Can you nap during the day on your days off? DH could do a regular activity with your son to let you sleep in one day at the weekend - 3hrs at the best local park (take multiple toys!), swimming, the supermarket shopping for the week, softplay, a trip to local family without you.

Once you are less desperate for sleep yourself, try some more strategies for improving your son’s sleep. Have you taken the side of his cot yet? Our daughter improved her sleep massively at around 20months when we did this (she learnt to climb out so it became the safer option). Co-sleeping worked better for us when she was in her cot pulled up next to our bed but not actually in our bed. Or try replacing yourself with a big teddy when he’s doing that crazy annoying arm stroking/stomach kicking routine. You can tell him that you’re going to sleep in your bed but teddy will stay with him all night. Try showing him where you sleep (your room) and telling him you’ll be just there if he needs you at night. Put a nightlight in the hallway if you need to.
Basically try all the things. Some will work, lots won’t.
For alone time with your husband, don’t rule out the odd daytime date. Leave your toddler with grandma for a Saturday afternoon, or take a day’s annual leave on a random weekday together but keep your son in his normal childcare.

We put a bed beside our bed and also Co slept.

my nephew is dreadful at night . My sister got a weighted blanket and that really helped . Have you looked into one of them ?

If there's room put a small single bed next to your double so he's co sleeping but on a separate bed. Kids' single beds tend to be lower so you can put your hand on him and touch him but he can't kick you as his bed is lower.