What the fuck am I supposed to do now?

[Sleepfailires]

18 month DS, tried to implement gentle sleep training. The problem is he refuses to sleep in his cot. He goes down OK but then wakes 2 hours later and refuses to go back in it.

Tried ‘gentle’ sleep training, me in the room with him stroking him and reassuring him.

He went absolutely berserk when I put him back down, screaming, thrashing around, I mean really hysterical screaming. Then after twenty minutes (and I was right by the cot) he vomited.

I am an absolute wreck, I am fat, my skin is grey, I am exhausted, broken, depressed, my relationship is suffering as we get no time together, we can’t think of having another child, my work is suffering. I don’t know what to do.

Sorry @caringcarer but balls to this. After a week of crying with no comfort being given he may well stop crying - because he'll learn that nobody is going to come and soothe him and give him the comfort he, as an 18mo baby, so badly wants. Babies don't have the emotional intelligence at that age to realise that their mum's just need some sleep! Poor thing. I'm glad it's worked for you and I know it's a relatively common approach but to me it seems very cold. Go into your baby's room, don't look at him or talk to him when he's crying? No thanks.

OP as loads of people have said here, you're not a shit mum. You're having a shit time and I'm sorry. It's so hard. You've been given lots of advice on here and so hopefully you can read through it and pick up some tips that you feel like you can try and hopefully they'll work.

In the meantime, invest in a waterproof mattress if you don't have one already so if your baby is sick in his cot it's at least an option to change the sheets and try putting him back in there. Get sleep whenever you can, ask your husband/ partner to help if and when they can, and stay strong. It might not feel like it right now but this too shall pass xx

Honestly, try the sleep consultant. I did and it was so worth it. You need support and encouragement and someone to talk through every sleep session until you get to a more manageable space.

sorry @caringcarer but balls to this. After a week of crying with no comfort being given he may well stop crying - because he'll learn that nobody is going to come and soothe him and give him the comfort he, as an 18mo baby, so badly wants. Babies don't have the emotional intelligence at that age to realise that their mum's just need some sleep! Poor thing. I'm glad it's worked for you and I know it's a relatively common approach but to me it seems very cold. Go into your baby's room, don't look at him or talk to him when he's crying? No thanks.

See posts like this are deeply unhelpful, it’s straight up misinformation based on “it seems cold to me”. Emotional blackmail.

In fact, one week of leaving the baby to cry is kinder than than setting them up to cry every two hours, every night, indefinitely. Much lower cortisol levels so much less stress all round.

My son was just the same, he wouldn’t stay asleep after the initial falling asleep, as I said in my post. I have to say I’m surprised at how you responded.

You are training your baby to not settle for the whole night. It’s not your baby, it’s you. You’re teaching him to not sleep through the night. You don’t believe any of us who are trying to tell you. You won’t listen to those who have experience. Your situation is not different. You think it is but it probably is not.

A baby has regular appts with pediatrician so you would likely already know if something was truly wrong.

I wouldn’t listen either back then. Go ahead and keep doing what you’re doing and continue wrecking your sleep and baby’s sleep. Someday you might realize.

I really really feel for you OP. Been there x 3! Get a sleep consultant. I was against it too as worried about them being left, crying, being upset etc. so only did on my third when I was at my wits end... but honestly the difference in me sleeping was night and day.

I'm up now as he's been poorly so having to reset him a bit but normally he sleeps so well. We are all much happier for it!

"In fact, one week of leaving the baby to cry is kinder than than setting them up to cry every two hours, every night, indefinitely. Much lower cortisol levels so much less stress all round."

This. And a baby that is getting poor interrupted sleep is not a health happy baby either.

Bring a parent sometimes means doing things that are hard because it's in your child's and/or your family's best interest. This is one of those scenarios.

There are loads of sleep training methods. You need to start trying them. Personally I'd try one where you reassure and leave the room as being present does not seem to be working. Book some time off work if needed. Double up the cot mattress protectors and sheets so you can quickly clear up if needed. Stick to it, be firm, I bet you'll have it done within a week and you'll be out of this hell of no sleep.

No advice really but I'm in the same boat. DS20m not only won't stay in his little bed in my room, thrashed all night but has now decided he wants to nurse 400 times a day and night. I'm so tired I feel like there's sand in my eyes. Once in a while DP takes him to another room so I can sleep but he cries. A lot.

We put him in a little bed instead of a cot with all his toys and nice blankets. But once he has his first wake up there is no chance of getting him back in there.

DS4 has been unwell so he's been in my bed most nights from about 2am as well. They kick and slap each other as well as me all night. It's so dysfunctional but I feel trapped!

What is yours like during the day? Mine is extremely sensitive and cries all the time. So I see his nighttime behavior as fairly typical. It's just brutal!

@BoDerek It's not misinformation - it's my opinion. As alluded to in the 'it seems cold to me' bit. Clearly my opinion.

Every baby is different, every parent is different. What works for one won't work for another etc.

My first born was a dream sleeper, my second a nightmare. As I said to @caringcarer I'm glad that approach worked for them, it's not something I did. I read lots of recommendations and tried one that I felt comfortable with that could work for me, which is what I advised OP to do.

You're going to have to let him cry and not give in.

Right now, he knows eventually you'll give in so he keeps it up until he does.
Vomiting isn't the worst thing in the world. Prepare the bed to account for this like others have suggested. prepare other night clothes to be changed into quickly if it happens again.

If he cries hard enough to vomit, clean him up, change his clothes and back to bed.

You're training him not to sleep or should I say, he's training you.

My youngest has never been a great sleeper. Hasn't been as bad as what you're describing since she was tiny but she still sucks at sleeping through.
She also does the 'wake up when you put them back down' thing and I've got a new trick that keeps her asleep when I lie her in bed.
We got rid of the cot sides so it's now a toddler bed, I sit on the end of the bed, (cross legged and facing the head of her bed) and lie her in my arms and cuddle her until she dozes off. I sit there for a while to make sure she's properly asleep and then I lean forward and lie her down but keep my arms around her and my body close to her and if she stays asleep, I slowly move away and then run for dear life.

She usually wakes up in the middle of the night again and I give up and bring her into bed but that trick works 😊 hope it helps

For both of mine I had the cot right up by the side of the bed so they could touch me and I could touch them.
Co sleeping for me meant I could never relax enough to go to sleep as I was frightened I was so tired I would turn over in the night and smother them.
They would go to bed when I went to bed. Even if that was 11pm or 1am. No naps during the day otherwise they never slept at night. (I know some children need their nap but mine would sleep for 2 hours during the day then not sleep at night)
For Ds I would put bottles of milk in the cot within his reach and would wake sometimes to hear a small hand patting the mattress until he found a bottle. At one stage he was drinking 6 bottles each night.
He would then chuck the empty bottle out of the cot when he had finished and occasionally it would land on Dh who would wake with a start not knowing what had hit him.

I know that we are supposed to put babies and small children down to sleep at 6.30 or 7pm but a lot of the people who I knew who did this would find that by the time they got to bed hours later their child was up having had 6 hours sleep and wanting to eat and play and be awake for the next 6 hours.

In my opinion there is no avoiding tears in your situation.

What I would do is bank some sleep for a few days - let DH do the nights over a weekend - get some earplugs and go to bed.

When you had a bit of rest - Monday night, start afresh. Something like this:

6pm tea
6.30pm bath and pjs
7pm book and milk
7.30pm into bed

Make sure you are keeping an eye on day sleeps - if he is napping later than 2pm or for more than 2/3 hours in the day that won't help.

Make sure there is nothing hurting - teeth, tummy etc.

Make sure he is warm enough - grobag?

At first waking go in and shush/pat. Don't engage, or switch on lights, just keep doing it. He will cry and if he vomits, calmly redress him replace sheets (keep a set handy and use a mattress protector). This could take hours, some babies are strong willed. Make sure he has easy access to his comfort toy/blanket/dummy. He will eventually fall asleep.

Do the same on repeat. In the end he will go for less and less time. He won't have been alone and he will know you are there for him. At 18 months he is perfectly capable of sleeping through the night in his own bed.

Don't give up.

@BoDerek

Wrong again, it is total misinformation. Check any research on cortisol levels. People like you who post judgemental drivel based on your very minimal experience do so much harm. You’re not the fantastic Uber parent you think you are, you’re just uninformed and arrogant.

Wow. First, nowhere have I claimed to be a 'fantastic Uber parent'. Nor do I think I am. Neither am I arrogant. You're very rude and coming across as very aggressive though. I have a different approach to you - and that's allowed. You follow one approach and I follow another - that's also allowed. I can say what I think of different approaches based on my own experience - as can you.

I could check research on cortisol levels and I don't doubt I'd find some very compelling evidence to support your approach. I could ask you, in return, to check any research on how it undermines trust (leading to potential effects in later life) and impairs self regulation of emotion and you would also find some compelling research. It all depends which side of the fence you fall on.

Do you have room in another room for a mattress on the floor? My first slept very badly, but we found that moving him to his own room with a double mattress on the floor meant that there was room for me to fall asleep next to him if I needed to, and room for him to roll around when I wasn't there, if I'd managed to stay awake and left once he was asleep to go to my own bed. It was brutal (for me, I don't think he suffered in the slightest) but it meant I eventually got some sleep and some space, even if it wasn't a whole night. And when he got bigger, he was more ok with his dad going in to settle him back to sleep, which made an amazing difference.

Good luck. You're not doing anything wrong, some babies just don't sleep well! I remember often wishing there were safe sleeping pills for babies, though with the benefit of more sleep, can understand why these don't exist...

BoDerek
Cortisol levels

Woah! You do realise thay raised cortisol levels are a symptom of distress? You speak as if raised cortisol is something good!!! Please stop with this.

OP
You're not a shit mum. If your were you wouldn't be here asking for advice and you seem very aware, concerned and caring. You've mentioned baby is vomiting. Is this only at night and after food/supper?

Gentle sleep training didn't work for me. I found it was 2 hours of faffing about with an upset child or stay out of the room and in 15 mins then he was out like a light.

I did feed to sleep if he woke in the night or in a pinch put him in the pram to run him up and down the hall. Apparently "rod for your own back" strategies but worked OK for us as we weren't over reliant on them for every nights sleep. Some people report midnight drives as the same success rate.

If bottle fed just feed him maybe? Something to settle him. I'm 43 and if I can't sleep need Peppermint tea once in a while, couple of sips and insomnia banished. Perhaps try a whatever works strategy. It won't be forever. If you are having to spend 30 mins settling him via a whatever works or 2 hours comforting a screaming child go for the easy option?

I do agree that 'gentle' sleep training is harder for some babies. They see you there, they know you are there but you will not pick them up or cuddle. That can be harder than leaving the room and turning off the light. That said, your baby seems to be the type who intensifies with time.

You're not a shite parent though. 3 kids, they all slept differently, so it's not just my parenting. One adored cosleeping and slept like a rock as long as you were there. One couldn't stand it. One just liked to fuss.

I think it's less likely as this is an older baby/toddler but is there any chance of reflux or other discomfort? Does he sleep better in a different position for example?

Controlled crying worked well with our 7 month old. You do the usual bedtime routine and put your baby to bed. When he wakes crying you wait 2 minutes, go in and settle, change him etc and walk out. Wait 4 minutes and do the same, 6 minutes and every 2 minutes after. The first couple of nights will be really hard (we did our first night at the hospital).
The idea is to train him to resettle rather than relying on you.

Oh no poor You! Our DD was like this, would throw up as soon as she was upset and like you, I believe you can’t leave a young one in this state at all.

we found for whatever reason she didn’t like a cot so we started early with a single bed up against the wall, but with side roll out protection thingos…they do have a proper name of course but it’s escaped me for now. All lined with very breathable cloth mesh and arms that fitted under the mattress to hold in place. The bed was low anyhow having three height adjustment screw holes on the frame.

this worked really well and as it happened, we were renovating at the same time so all shared a bedroom, which of course was the ants pants for DD.

no doubt at all she slept wonderfully when in between us, but I too worried about either one of us rolling on her.

no doubt you have tried this, and if so the next step would be to seek professional help. My former neighbour did (although hers didn’t throw up) at a sleep clinic (this was in Australia) at the time. Wonderful results.

I really feel for you OP, I have horrific memories of sleep deprivation.
If there is room I would get a double bed in his room/double mattress on the floor and a stairgate on his door. Make sure you get a waterproof mattress cover. If you have a mattress on the floor, lift the mattress on its side during the day to air it.
I would recommend CC/CIO and really stick to it or cosleep in his room, at least on a double with just 2 of you there would be more space.
You have my utmost sympathy 💐

Just a thought, could he be suffering from reflux or just a bellyache because of lying flat? They can get acid reflux etc at any age. You could try elevating the head end of the cot a little. You see lots of stuff online about how it’s dangerous to do that, but that’s for very young babies who can’t lift their heads if they roll face down. It’s OK for an 18 month old.
The extreme crying does suggest maybe he’s in pain rather than just cranky.
I hope you see some improvement soon. Don’t rule out a sleep clinic - they are specialists and the HV isn’t - HVs aren’t always right about everything.

Hang on in there OP!
We had a similar situation with our DS, after weeks of 1/2 hours of sleep a night we called a children's sleep expert, she stayed with us for three nights and changed our lives.
Bath, bottle, reading, sleep, when he wakes up white noise in a cot next to our bed, leave the room, offer more of a bottle if needed to sooth.

Hiring her was worth it’s weight in gold and less than we thought it would be, it’s worth doing some research.
By day 3 we cracked it and we’ve only had an issue when he's been poorly.
Hang on in there, ask family for some help in the day so you can both catch up on some hours.
Remember this is a phase, things will get better.

I’m so sorry love. This sounds really hard. You haven’t failed at all. I didn’t do any sleep training and now have a 4 year old who sleeps in her own bed. My solution was cosleeping BUT I’m lucky and she is a very still sleeper. Of course I couldn’t have done it if she was a more active sleeper.

In your situation I would use a sleep consultant. There are lots of different methods they can use (none of which would involve leaving your child to get ridiculously stressed). I would definitely say that a health visitor is NOT a sleep expert and I am not particularly surprised that their advice failed. It will cost a few ££ but everyone I know who has used one. Has had great results. Some are ‘gentler’ than others, you need to work out what you are comfortable with. I know of a couple on London who probably do it all remotely these days. Let me know if you want any details.

Sending you solidarity. This will pass and you will actually laugh about it one day, honestly!

How does he fall asleep the first time? In the cot or on you and transferred? When he wakes up I would go back through the bedtime routine again. So if you rock him to sleep with a bottle or whatever, do that.
As for cosleeping yes it can suck but if he's screaming cos you put a pillow between you or raking your leg, then he's not actually asleep yet, is He? Surely when he's asleep he's still? Can't you put him in your bed, do the bedtime routine, (if it's usually done in cot I mean) and when he's actually asleep, go to sleep? Throw husband out so you have more room in bed just til you've broke the back of it. Or have him do this and you go sleep somewhere else. Good luck! There's options but sometimes you just have to wait it out. When did this start? It won't last forever