What the fuck am I supposed to do now?

[Sleepfailires]

18 month DS, tried to implement gentle sleep training. The problem is he refuses to sleep in his cot. He goes down OK but then wakes 2 hours later and refuses to go back in it.

Tried ‘gentle’ sleep training, me in the room with him stroking him and reassuring him.

He went absolutely berserk when I put him back down, screaming, thrashing around, I mean really hysterical screaming. Then after twenty minutes (and I was right by the cot) he vomited.

I am an absolute wreck, I am fat, my skin is grey, I am exhausted, broken, depressed, my relationship is suffering as we get no time together, we can’t think of having another child, my work is suffering. I don’t know what to do.

Jesus fucking Christ. What an arsehole reply.

Those classes are basic.

You've obviously never had a strong willed child otherwise you would realise your reply was beyond stupid. And rude.

I'd recommend picking a sleep training approach that resonates with you and follow a program.

Personally we did a controlled crying program where we left him to cry for 10 mins then went in, picked him up, comforted him then once he stopped crying we popped him back in his cot and told him it was time to sleep. You were supposed to gradually increase the crying time but I couldn't do any longer than 10 mins. My husband and I alternated comforting him. The first night it went on for over an hour and I was ready to give up when suddenly after my husband put him back in the cot he just rolled over and went to sleep. I couldn't believe it. The next night it was 15 minutes and one comfort the third night it was 5 minutes.

If you have the funds I would definitely invest in a sleep consultant because it's so tough when you're mentally and physically exhausted.

Other recommendations are to ensure your child has a comforter. Mine has a toy fox he still loves and sleeps with every night at 3.5. The other one is white noise and making sure the room is completely pitch black.

Good luck. Sleep was the absolute hardest thing for me.

Crying will not hurt him

It's tiresome & unhelpful to see this repeated.

It is hurting him - he is vomiting with upset, and is distressed.

It's not kind or fair to leave a child continue to cry at that point. That's not the intention of controlled crying (tho I hate this term).

For many parents, the idea of leaving their DC to cry is not something that they can do, and that's ok.

A baby has regular appts with pediatrician so you would likely already know if something was truly wrong.

What? That's not the case?

Both of mine did this. It nearly broke us. We coslept or slept in shifts out of desperation, just so we could both function at work. it’s not for everyone though
if it helps, dd2 went from this to suddenly sleeping through at around 18 months. It does get better!

Mine is/ was the same. Not only will he vomit, when upset after about 2 minutes he will hold his breathe, turn blue and pass out. He simply can’t be let to cry to sleep at all

Anyway, he’s just turned 2 years, and we have the cot side off already so it’s a toddler bed now. It’s much much better now he isn’t trapped. He could just climb out cot anyway.

Bedtime now, story in armchair in his room, then he gets into bed. Dh or I then sit in armchair in his room until he goes to sleep. This takes 45-60mins on a good day, 2hrs not. But I now just read on my phone or kindle and leave him to it, he’s in and out bed, I put him back sometimes but usury he just leaps out if not on his own terms. He plays with teddy/ wall/ rug/ his own hands/ gets up and has drink etc. Its not great. But there’s no screaming, vomiting or holding breathe anymore.

And he’s tends to wake once and can be settled now, then second waking 4-6am joins us in bed. At his worse he woke almost every 30mins all night long.

Bedtime is 8-8.30pm, so he does sleep until 9.15-10pm usually and up at 6.30-7am. Any earlier and it takes even longer than the 1-2hrs to settle. He seems to need very little sleep

@BoDerek

Your posts are incredibly rude & insulting to a poster & I have reported them.

Additionally, you are not the voice of authority here, you are offering an opinion, and others hold, and offer, an alternative opinion, and this is ok.

I do not know if someone has said this but we removed the sides off the cot to make it a toddler bed and this made going to sleep a lot easier! From rarely sleeping in his bed to sleeping there every night it has made a huge difference

We had a crash pad of sorts by his bed for a while

Mine used to do that. DH thinks it’s nice for them to come into bed with us sometimes. I don’t. I hate it. Because while DH goes back to sleep I get kicked punched stretched poked. Makes me so mad.

Hi @Sleepfailires , I haven't read the full thread but just wanted to say that I have been exactly where you are with my D's who's nearly 20m. Lack of sleep was ruining my life and cosleeping was literally torture. We sought help from the health visiting sleep team and I was so so skeptical at first but 4/5 months later he's finally gone from waking 10+ times a night even when co sleeping to starting to sleeping through (most) nights. Here's the changes we made on their advice to get him to this point:

Absolutely no more than 2h nap, usually we wake him after 1.5h

Awake by 12pm regardless of when he went to nap.

Dismantled his cot and put him on a single mattress on the floor, with the cot mattress next to it so he has like a big 'p' shaped bed (he's so restless and moves around loads so kept falling out)

A red nightlight in the shape of a whale that he loves which we say goodnight to every night

I think the biggest help has been breaking his need for contact when he's falling asleep, we started with him cuddled up to me on the mattress and then over the course of nearly 5 months I have inched myself away so now I lie on the 'p' bit of the mattress but we aren't touching, we had some really rough nights with this because you have to be strict about not giving in and taking a backwards step in terms of how close you are but it's been worth it!

I really would recommend sticking with the gradual retreat, I thought it would never work for us because Ds is so so stubborn but I figured what did I have to lose!

I totally understand how hard it is. Ds2 was as terrible sleeper. Not exactly the same problems as you but he didn’t sleep through the night at all until he was turned 5 and ended up in bed with me part of the night until he was about 13.

We did find some techniques that helped a bit but as others said you need to keep trying until you find something that helps you. In the end we all just had to accept it. Fortunately I can cope on not too much sleep. I stopped discussing it with anyone else because everyone thinks they have a solution (and they don’t!) so talking about it made it worse.

Ds turned out to have allergies and some neurodiversity so we can see now there was a cause to the issues.

I really hope it gets better for you

Some other pp said it up thread but you could try an actual bed. I did with my eldest at around the same age. He was also impossible to co sleep with but hated the restriction of the bars in his cot. It actually helped him be less upset. Mine was also prone to moving a lot at night and the cot was not enough space for him.

Ignore the idealist and sanctimonious w*nkers on this thread who think they are parenting experts whose way is the only way and you're neglectful for wanting any sleep and not co sleeping till age 13 or whatever.

Honestly, what’s ‘gentle’ for one baby/parent can just be torture for another. My son would also scream to the point of vomiting during any sleep training involving me being present whilst he was supposed to settle. He needed his own space to learn the skill of settling and resettling. If your baby puts himself to sleep unaided at the start of the night, you know he’s capable of self-settling. That’s a big win already.

I think this may well be right. We used to rush in to DD if she cried in the night. From about 9 or 10 months onwards, when we did this she'd then be awake for an hour sobbing inconsolably whatever we did (even if we brought her into our bed). We realised that if we left it ten minutes before going in, she would stop crying and put herself back to sleep. So we leave her. Seems cruel, maybe, but I'd rather she cried for less than ten minutes (it's normally less than five) on her own than for an hour with us there. Since then, we've only needed to go to her in the night when she's been ill.

Toddlers are little people and are therefore all different, and different things will help them get to sleep. I think in your situation, I'd try Ferber of some sort before concluding sleep training won't work for you. And frankly I'd probably do it with slightly longer intervals than standard.

Op you sound so tired and worn down. I remember those days and they were miserable. It seems so isolating with a non sleeping baby.

The advice I got was that babies that wake early in the night are often overtired.

We brought bedtime forward little by little and sleep improved. Dc1 used to be in bed for 6pm. People thought we were mad/ very rigid with routine but years of sleep deprivation drive you to that.

We also did a lot of physical activity outside to wear her out during the day.

She also slept better if she napped ( but was also a rubbish napped). We co slept with her in bed after the first wake at night.

She did eventually grow out of it and is now a great sleeper I have to prod her awake for school.

I hope you find a solution.

Sounds a bloody nightmare much sympathy.

we would research find the most highly recommended experienced sleep consultant and hire her.

@Sleepfailires

I went through this - DS was a terrible sleeper. He got better after weaning, and sleeps brilliantly now!

My advice is not textbook, but I can only say what worked for me.

DS wanted lots of cuddles, reassurance - and I think he was probably hungry which is why he improved after weaning.

1. a white noise app, or regular tune/music that you play at sleep time. Won’t work at first, but after a while - the regularity of the noise he’ll tune in to.

2. DS wanted to sleep on me. I’d let him do this, and then when asleep I’d transfer into cot.

3. I started DS in a cot with wooden sides, away from bed. He hated it. I got a Chicco next to me crib that you attach to the bed. I could just reach out and pat in the night if he began to stir. When stirring I’d put the app on too. The crib had soft sides and I think he liked to tuck himself into a soft corner (but like in the womb).

4. I worked out a plan with DP, so at least I’d get a block of sleep. We’d sometimes have DS in the lounge, in his pushchair carrycot sleeping - DP with him sleeping on sofa, while I got block of sleep in bed.

It is very hard, but it WILL get better.

And try not to be down on yourself. Your body has done an absolutely miraculous and incredible thing, it’s beautiful. Your a superwoman xxxxx

OP some good advice in recent posts.

There is nothing you are doing wrong, you have a baby who doesn't want to sleep.

Firstly, you need to look after your own well-being.

You say he wakes after 2 hours? What time does he go to bed? I wonder if that could be brought forward, so he goes to bed earlier, and perhaps sleeps for longer initially.

At that point, you need to sleep, dividing the night w DH. I know DS doesn't settle for DH, but he doesn't for you either, really.

If you could get a block of sleep early in the night, it would be something.

I wouldn't bother trying to settle him back in his cot at the moment. He's too distressed, it's not going to work.

When he wakes up, do what you need to to settle but alternate with DH. If you have to bring him into your bed, once he is asleep, have a mattress in your room or his that you can go to to get sleep.

Have a rota with DH about the nights.

Consider getting a sleep consultant soon, especially to consider the reasons for sleeping well initially & then waking & not settling back.

Good luck 💐

Hey OP, my eldest was like this and we managed to crack it at 14 months. How are his naps? Does he have other sleep associations, other than his dummy? My two (now 2.5 and 11 months) both have the same blankets for all sleep, a white noise machine, the littlest has a dummy but the older one did too, blackout blinds and curtains. At about your son's age, we became very strict with his routine and would let him have 1 nap after lunch, of up to 2 hours, no cat naps at any other point in the day, and then I sat/lay on his floor, held his hand, patted his bum/the mattress until he gave in. We're doing it with the youngest now too: he's a really light sleeper and needs white noise, but kicks and thrashes about in our bed, as he wants his own space. It's taken a week so far and he's staying in his cot for half the night at the moment, we don't let him cry it out as he shares a room with his brother.
All of the sleep programmes I bought emphasise the importance of routine, so that they are tired enough to sleep a whole night. I hope this helps and that you get some sleep soon, I fully understand how not sleeping affects every single part of your life and wellbeing.

OP, it was years ago, but the 'gentle' sleep training I was taught never involved picking him up, as that is a massive stimulus. It suggested going into his room, in the dark, placing a hand on him to gently stroke or pat, making no eye contact, and saying nothing at all except, 'Sleep now,' in a soft voice.

That way you reassure them you're there but don't give them any stimulus. Worth a try. I sympathise deeply. I had an undiagnosed autistic child who didn;t sleep through for years and I was a wreck.

Put him in a bed rather than a cot. My DD was in a junior bed at that age as she kept climbing out of her cot. Maybe reduce his day time naps so he is more tired at night.

@AnAfternoonWalk are you in the UK? We have literally never seen a paediatrician, and he’s never seen a GP either.

We’ll have to see. Still no clue what to do.

And I don't understand why other women need to be so judgey to someone clearly struggling. I never had my baby in my room. First night out of hospital he went in his own room.

Not much solace to you now OP but this will pass. I have friends who went through the same, including the vomiting. Keep going.

You have my sympathies, my daughter was totally sleep avoidant and I have memories of walking 10k a day (I was so skinny then!) because she would only sleep when being pushed in the pram and I just needed her to sleep. We actually had a sleep consultant quit because DD would not respond to her sleep training methods, she was (and still is) a complete force of nature. We ended up co-sleeping, kick the husband into a single and prioritise your sleep for now, so there's more space for you and DC in the double, and just remember the mantra "this too, shall pass".

Does he have any of his last time coming through by any chance?
my son was the same up until a couple of weeks ago, same age as yours. He went through a stage of getting in bed with me but not till about 2am then all of a sudden he’d wake up after a few hours screaming until he was in bed with me. Anbesol liquid did the job if it is that.. just a suggestion, or could u take the side of his cot and place it next to your bed?