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Original poster

What the fuck am I supposed to do now?

519 replies

Sleepfailires · 29/05/2022 00:58

18 month DS, tried to implement gentle sleep training. The problem is he refuses to sleep in his cot. He goes down OK but then wakes 2 hours later and refuses to go back in it.

Tried ‘gentle’ sleep training, me in the room with him stroking him and reassuring him.

He went absolutely berserk when I put him back down, screaming, thrashing around, I mean really hysterical screaming. Then after twenty minutes (and I was right by the cot) he vomited.

I am an absolute wreck, I am fat, my skin is grey, I am exhausted, broken, depressed, my relationship is suffering as we get no time together, we can’t think of having another child, my work is suffering. I don’t know what to do.

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Original poster
Sleepfailires · 30/05/2022 11:16

I have to say, this threads been incredibly helpful Flowers

OP posts:
shivawn · 30/05/2022 15:52

@Sleepfailires Great to see that you're feeling more hopeful today! It will likely be a gradual process but getting him to sleep in his own bed all night sounds like great progress! Well done you!

BertieBotts · 30/05/2022 17:33

katepilar · 29/05/2022 12:38

I found your approach interesting. How old was your son when you did this?

Ours is just over one year and I cant see that this would work on him. He just goes from hapilly smiling to full volume scream if the breast isnt there when he needs it. Its now better as he can crawl and walk about and lift tops to show he needs breast.

Show quote history

I did it three times. Once at just over 1yo and it didn't work but also, I wasn't doing my usual thing but slower, I was just doing nothing/trying to soothe him with my voice and then starting at the 5 min mark. That felt terrible and didn't work. I tried again at about 18 months and this time did the slow progress thing and it felt completely different. Abandoned that for some reason I forget, probably illness or teething, and tried again when he was older and I never had to expand the time because it just worked immediately to wean him off night feeds then.

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toastfairy · 30/05/2022 21:42

BoDerek · 29/05/2022 03:02

sorry @caringcarer but balls to this. After a week of crying with no comfort being given he may well stop crying - because he'll learn that nobody is going to come and soothe him and give him the comfort he, as an 18mo baby, so badly wants. Babies don't have the emotional intelligence at that age to realise that their mum's just need some sleep! Poor thing. I'm glad it's worked for you and I know it's a relatively common approach but to me it seems very cold. Go into your baby's room, don't look at him or talk to him when he's crying? No thanks.

See posts like this are deeply unhelpful, it’s straight up misinformation based on “it seems cold to me”. Emotional blackmail.

In fact, one week of leaving the baby to cry is kinder than than setting them up to cry every two hours, every night, indefinitely. Much lower cortisol levels so much less stress all round.

See this is how it seems to me. Right now OPs baby doesn't feel safe to go to sleep by himself in his own bed in his own room. Everyone agrees this is a crappy situation.

So what you're trying to do is teach him that he's safe. Teach him that YOU aren't afraid. YOU know that there's no cause for panic or alarm. THIS IS NOT AN EMERGENCY. You haven't left him behind by accident. He's ok to go to sleep.

Love, fuss, affection => part of the going to bed routine, bury them in that stuff all day - It's great. Panic that you aren't in the room /naah mate you're reet.

Eye contact requires more brain power and therefore tends to wake 'em up, more. therefore opposite of helpful. Unfamiliar verbal interactions opposite of helpful. Soothing non verbal noises / consistent 'catchphrase' in soothing tones - helpful. Reassurance that they aren't in danger isn't 'cold' far from it.

The problem with parenting advice is it's all useless until it isn't. But whatever you do and whenever you do it I think we all sympathise and wish you well.

Original poster
Sleepfailires · 30/05/2022 22:42

That’s all well and good @toastfairy except it’s a load of bollocks, isn’t it? Because responding to his every need, whim and want has not made him secure and happy, it’s made him and me beside ourselves with exhaustion and left me quite badly depressed. If he was genuinely worried he was in danger, he’d be fine if I was there. He isn’t.

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Original poster
Sleepfailires · 30/05/2022 22:45

And (partly so I have something to fall back on if any sleep consultant deigns to get back to me at all ever) last night he was up between 1230-3. Up at 645. Tonight finally got him down 20:20 and he woke just over two hours later and is showing no signs of going back down. And that’s nowhere near enough sleep but also isn’t sustainable for me, at all.

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ChiefWiggumsBoy · 31/05/2022 01:19

I'd be really interested to know how many of the women on here commenting that not attending to the every whim of your child were attended to in the same way by their mothers? And whether or not these now-adults still feel the trauma of being put to bed in a cot and left to cry for a bit?

@Sleepfailires I know you don't want to, but I really think you need to get your husband to take the lead on this. You are exhausted, you are depressed; this is only going to heighten those feelings and as we know, babies are very perceptive.

Original poster
Sleepfailires · 31/05/2022 04:34

I’ve had about 2 hours all night. DH is with him now. I am back to wondering what the fuck to do!

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OnceuponaRainbow18 · 31/05/2022 06:52

Blimey, I would suggest you just go away for a couple of nights, take a sleeping pill ( as I found the pressure to sleep when I could too much) and have 2 excellent nights sleep- you deserve them!

SchoolThing · 31/05/2022 08:40

ChiefWiggumsBoy · 31/05/2022 01:19

I'd be really interested to know how many of the women on here commenting that not attending to the every whim of your child were attended to in the same way by their mothers? And whether or not these now-adults still feel the trauma of being put to bed in a cot and left to cry for a bit?

@Sleepfailires I know you don't want to, but I really think you need to get your husband to take the lead on this. You are exhausted, you are depressed; this is only going to heighten those feelings and as we know, babies are very perceptive.

Not sure I am understanding your question correctly but my mother left babies to go to sleep and always responded to crying by turning up the radio 📻

I used CIO very successfully for my first but it didn’t work for my second as he had a neurological condition that made it nigh impossible for him to self settle.

TheLightYears · 31/05/2022 09:05

Sleepfailires · 30/05/2022 22:42

That’s all well and good @toastfairy except it’s a load of bollocks, isn’t it? Because responding to his every need, whim and want has not made him secure and happy, it’s made him and me beside ourselves with exhaustion and left me quite badly depressed. If he was genuinely worried he was in danger, he’d be fine if I was there. He isn’t.

I think you have misread what pp meant.
Lots of attention, fuss, fun during day time but reverting to low lights, contact, voice at night.

Think about it, if you had someone fussing over you, touching, talking to you , would you be able to sleep?
No

Can I ask what happens during the day regarding naps?
Does he take long naps?
He cant be getting more than 6/7 hours unless hes making up for sleep elsewhere.
I still think the problem is he treats night time sleep like a nap so 2/3 hours .

Original poster
Sleepfailires · 31/05/2022 09:23

But he doesn’t sleep if you leave him, he doesn’t sleep if you’re there but quiet and not touching him, he doesn’t sleep if you’re there and ssshing him … etc.

I know I sound grumpy but I got NO sleep until 5am!

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Original poster
Sleepfailires · 31/05/2022 09:25

Sorry … naps are 1.5 hours, 1230-2 normally.

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TheLightYears · 31/05/2022 09:45

Sleepfailires · 31/05/2022 09:23

But he doesn’t sleep if you leave him, he doesn’t sleep if you’re there but quiet and not touching him, he doesn’t sleep if you’re there and ssshing him … etc.

I know I sound grumpy but I got NO sleep until 5am!

God you poor thing!Brew
Yes I understand what you are saying but with controlled crying you basically do a regime/ plan of repetetive behaviours which reassure them you are there but its night time and time to sleep.
It takes time and not deviating to get it to work.
He needs to learn that its night time and time to sleep.
I get you are anxious because he vomited but he doesnt need milk in the night, so water only.
I get that you are exhausted-can your DH have him for 2 nights and then you do it.
You dont really have anything to lose...

LGBirmingham · 02/06/2022 08:07

Hi @Sleepfailires just wanted to say we get split nights too. Happening way more often at the moment and mine is the same age as yours. He was awake 2-3:40am last night. Friends with older ones seem to have gone through it too. There's seems no rhyme or reason to them over here. However my ds does suffer with his ears and is waiting for grommets. I just lay beside him on his floor bed and don't engage aside from a cuddle or stroke if he gets upset or to offer some water.

Pretty sure sleep training wouldn't solve a split night as they're just awake aren't they? Tbh I often get split nights myself if something (ds) wakes me up when I've had a bit if sleep already so I'm trying to chill about it. It's definitely preferable to being woken 3+ times a night for me.

Just wanted to offer solidarity as I have no solution. I hope this sleep phase ends quickly for both of us.

Reluctantadult · 02/06/2022 08:47

Hope a sleep consultant gets back to you. Personally I would go for controlled crying work interval checks. OR have an eye to whether the interval checks are winding him up more and he'd be better flat left. I say this because what's going on now isn't working for any of you, and you've got nowhere much else to go from here. In my experience it's pretty quick and effective. I KNOW he vomited before. But this is still my opinion. I cannot think of what else you could do from here.

Also just solidarity and coffee from me. I have very much been there. It's destroying.

Reluctantadult · 02/06/2022 08:49

@LGBirmingham both mine were split sleepers, controlled crying resolved it really quickly with my 1yr old. I also thought it wouldn't!

My 4yo needed a different approach due to age.

katepilar · 02/06/2022 10:32

Perhaps Bach remedies would help you both settle, or kraniosacral therapy or something similar.
You must be both so exhausted. It hard to be exhausted.

katepilar · 02/06/2022 10:36

All of them. Thats what trauma typically does to people.

katepilar · 02/06/2022 10:40

Sleepfailires · 30/05/2022 22:42

That’s all well and good @toastfairy except it’s a load of bollocks, isn’t it? Because responding to his every need, whim and want has not made him secure and happy, it’s made him and me beside ourselves with exhaustion and left me quite badly depressed. If he was genuinely worried he was in danger, he’d be fine if I was there. He isn’t.

While you have done everything you can possibly think of it looks like the child's needs are not met. Its not your fault you cant figure it out. I wish you can solve it soon as you all deserve not to be exhausted. Sending hugs.

katepilar · 02/06/2022 10:45

Sleepfailires · 29/05/2022 01:12

I can’t function co sleeping. He thrashes around constantly, kicking, punching and still wakes up all the time. There is definitely an idealistic image on here of co sleeping: that the baby lies next to you sleeping peacefully. Mine is currently next to me and has been for half an hour. At the moment, his toenails are raking down my thigh over and over and his other leg repeatedly kicking my stomach.

I can’t live like that. I just have no idea what to actually do about it.

I wonder what is making him so restless in sleep? Is he like that when he is awake? or is he tossing about trying to find a position to sleep in / thats what I do when I cant sleep/

MolliciousIntent · 02/06/2022 14:39

@katepilar Restless windmill sleep is very very common in toddlers, it's not unusual at all.

Also, suggesting that OP's son isn't sleeping because of a mystery unmet need is a bit unkind/disingenuous. OP's son isn't sleeping because his preferred method of sleep is on top of his mother and she's very reasonably decided that she can no longer cope with that. That's the "need" that is going unmet, so suggesting that she just meets the need is a bit daft really.

lameasahorse · 02/06/2022 16:41

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TheLightYears · 02/06/2022 22:03

MolliciousIntent · 02/06/2022 14:39

@katepilar Restless windmill sleep is very very common in toddlers, it's not unusual at all.

Also, suggesting that OP's son isn't sleeping because of a mystery unmet need is a bit unkind/disingenuous. OP's son isn't sleeping because his preferred method of sleep is on top of his mother and she's very reasonably decided that she can no longer cope with that. That's the "need" that is going unmet, so suggesting that she just meets the need is a bit daft really.

Totally agree but also as parents sometimes our childrens needs have to be put ahead of their wants( not talking about tiny babies)
Toddlers would love to run near the road, eat ice cream all day and jump on our heads at 3am but as parents we have a duty to put their needs for safety, a healthy diet and a good nights sleep first.
Of course they will kick off its what toddlers do!

Original poster
Sleepfailires · 30/06/2022 14:53

I’ve been wanting to update for a while but had anxieties about jinxing myself.

On the back of that one night I contacted a sleep consultant and a plan was implemented. We had an utterly horrific night where I cried. DS was sick five times, he screamed until 3 in the morning. Awful doesn’t begin to cover it.

Then next night he slept through. Neither of us could believe it (even the sleep consultant was surprised!)

He isn’t totally perfect and we do have night wakes but this tends to be every other night and short lived, as in he settles back down with just a bit of reassurance. He’s in bed much earlier so I have a proper evening, I’ve started a hobby and I’m enjoying life and enjoying him again.

Two things will now happen, the thread will fill up with advice from well meaning mnetters who haven’t RTFT and DS will keep waking tonight because you know … I’ve cursed it!

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