What the fuck am I supposed to do now?

[Sleepfailires]

18 month DS, tried to implement gentle sleep training. The problem is he refuses to sleep in his cot. He goes down OK but then wakes 2 hours later and refuses to go back in it.

Tried ‘gentle’ sleep training, me in the room with him stroking him and reassuring him.

He went absolutely berserk when I put him back down, screaming, thrashing around, I mean really hysterical screaming. Then after twenty minutes (and I was right by the cot) he vomited.

I am an absolute wreck, I am fat, my skin is grey, I am exhausted, broken, depressed, my relationship is suffering as we get no time together, we can’t think of having another child, my work is suffering. I don’t know what to do.

@Sleepfailires Best of luck tonight! I'm rooting so hard for you.

One thing I've learned in my own sleep battles is that you should give any changes at least 3 or 4 days to start working.

I do have the week off (teacher - half term) so hopefully it’s a good time to make some positive changes.

I may well be on here swearing and cursing in a couple of hours though.

The 'suck it up' comment... ok, fair point.

However, there's been a lot of research into the potential emotional effects of CIO. It's evidence based research. It would be a disservice to the OP (and anyone else reading for info) not to mention these just for the sake of giving the OP another strategy to try? Surely she would want the full picture?So it's frankly strange to criticise someone for pointing this out. Nobody is treating the OP badly or being mean for saying this, nor are they making her situation any worse.

@youngwildandni links to the research please, because the majority of the stuff I see quoted is based on research conducted on Romanian Orphans who were systematically neglected, not sleep trained using CIO.

@UnderTheMoonlightWeDanced

Thats awful about your friend. More common than people realise.

With attitudes towards mothers like the ones on display on this thread, it’s no wonder so many women suffer with post- natal mental health problems. The message on here is that you cease to exist as a person with feelings and needs once you have a baby. And if you even dare to acknowledge that you do in fact that needs you are seen as selfish, not a good mother, going to irreversibly damage your baby. It’s horrendous.

@youngwildandni

you do know those studies showing tangible differences to the structure of a child brain are - as another poster pointed out based on children who lives in Romanian orphanages don’t you?

CIO is not harmful to the baby. Parents can struggle with it, understandably. Not helping baby into a good sleep routine however can be harmful in that their stress levels can be continually raised.

Just to confirm. Are you telling us that if you were sitting opposite a friend, on their knees with exhaustion, depression, the deep sense of failing as a parent and for some, horrifically intrusive thoughts that come with that level of sleep deprivation. That you would STILL point them towards evidence based research that they are potentially damaging their child emotionally if they tried CIO.

I really want to get this clear. You are sitting opposite that friend, in that situation. Is this what your telling them?

Also OP I’m not saying this is what you are going through I hope things get better for you. Please do what you need to. If it helps I have a few siblings and I’m the youngest my mum was def a gentle parent approach but we laughed the other day that she “accidentally” did CIO with me as she would hear me cry and then one by one my siblings would get them selves into precarious situations she had to immediately assist with - by the time she thought “right must go get the baby” I’d gone back to sleep! Im very close to her and don’t feel I’ve suffered negatively for it.

No specific advice OP just solidarity from someone else who co- sleeping didn't work for and still doesn't work for at 20 months.
My DD will slap, laugh, roll, kick, bounce up and down instead of sleeping if she's in bed with us.
This has been the picture since infant hood - she just cannot sleep with us! It's frustrating as I'd love to give her a cuddle to sleep when she's unwell and struggling to sleep.

We did shush Pat from like 7/8 months. Was hard going , eventually moved to just a cuddle to drowsy then put down awake at 12-14 months. I was adamant that she would learn to self settle from a year old as 1 year of sleep deprivation is extreme, also I am a useless and not very nice person to be around when sleep deprived.

I

She can still need a cuddle (awake) to sleep

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-crying-it-out?amp

Here is an interesting (I think) article in Psychology today, containing links to some studies and research. I'll be honest, I've done a super quick check right now and this is one of the first hits that's come up. I'm not going to delve any deeper or provide any more links, I've had a long day and I can't be bothered. Also, I'm happy with the knowledge that people will have a different opinion to me - I don't feel the need to try and make everyone agree with me.

I'm well aware that there will be flaws in this article and the studies, I'm well aware that there will likely be an equal number of studies that show CIO can work (which will have an equal number of flaws).

That's an opinion piece not scientific research.

I feel your pain! For the past 3 months I had to rock and feed my baby to sleep, getting up multiple times through the night and would have to be walked round for 3 hours before going back to sleep I was surviving on about 3-4 hours sleep. My skin got really bad and I was so rundown. This may not be for you but I was at my wits end and I came across this sleep consultant called becca. She runs a business called littlezsleep (she has a YouTube channel which is full of amazing tips) I bought the course which wasn't as expensive as I thought (£60!) oh my! It's changed my life! It's a leave and check method and she explains step-by-step on what you need to do. She explains that waiting 20 minutes when they wake up is crucial, babies may be in light sleep and wriggle and make noise but are actually still asleep, it us that stimulates them by picking them up! My baby has gone from not napping to napping 3-4 times a day and sleeping 10 hours at night
Make sure the room is PITCH black (I've found it really helps)

It’s hard for the first 3 days and it caused a few arguments between me and my partner
But when he saw the change he couldn't believe it! And we get a Evening together!

Littlezsleep also has a option were you can purchase a premium plan (again not as expensive as I thought) and for the two weeks the programme runs you can message the sleep consultants as many questions as you like and they reply! They helped me so much, it may be worth messaging them to see if they have any ideas/tips
Have a look at her YouTube channel and read her Facebook page comments

Again like I said it may not be for everyone but I know how shit you are feeling right now and I just wanted to share what helped me

Good luck....ps your not a shite mum
You sound like a awesome mum!

I feel your pain! For the past 3 months I had to rock and feed my baby to sleep, getting up multiple times through the night and would have to be walked round for 3 hours before going back to sleep I was surviving on about 3-4 hours sleep. My skin got really bad and I was so rundown. This may not be for you but I was at my wits end and I came across this sleep consultant called becca. She runs a business called littlezsleep (she has a YouTube channel which is full of amazing tips) I bought the course which wasn't as expensive as I thought (£60!) oh my! It's changed my life! It's a leave and check method and she explains step-by-step on what you need to do. She explains that waiting 20 minutes when they wake up is crucial, babies may be in light sleep and wriggle and make noise but are actually still asleep, it us that stimulates them by picking them up! My baby has gone from not napping to napping 3-4 times a day and sleeping 10 hours at night
Make sure the room is PITCH black (I've found it really helps)

It’s hard for the first 3 days and it caused a few arguments between me and my partner
But when he saw the change he couldn't believe it! And we get a Evening together!

Littlezsleep also has a option were you can purchase a premium plan (again not as expensive as I thought) and for the two weeks the programme runs you can message the sleep consultants as many questions as you like and they reply! They helped me so much, it may be worth messaging them to see if they have any ideas/tips
Have a look at her YouTube channel and read her Facebook page comments

Again like I said it may not be for everyone but I know how shit you are feeling right now and I just wanted to share what helped me

Good luck....ps your not a shite mum
You sound like a awesome mum!

@UnderTheMoonlightWeDanced

Just to confirm. Are you telling us that if you were sitting opposite a friend, on their knees with exhaustion, depression, the deep sense of failing as a parent and for some, horrifically intrusive thoughts that come with that level of sleep deprivation. That you would STILL point them towards evidence based research that they are potentially damaging their child emotionally if they tried CIO.

I really want to get this clear. You are sitting opposite that friend, in that situation. Is this what your telling them?

Oh for goodness' sake. Stop putting words in my mouth please. An approach to helping OP get her baby to sleep has been proposed. There are plenty of reports that say it can help, plenty which don't. In the interests of having the full picture I've pointed out some of the criticisms of this approach so OP has some pros and cons so she can decide for herself before trying it. That is all.

I pointed someone, on here, who asked for evidence (not OP), towards some evidence. Of course I wouldn't do that if I was sitting with a friend - it's quite frankly absurd to suggest I would. If a friend asked me, I would suggest some strategies that don't involve CIO. I wouldn't mention CIO to this hypothetical friend in this hypothetical situation and so I wouldn't need to point her towards the research. If she asked me about CIO I would be honest and tell her it's not something I felt comfortable trying, so I didn't try it. That's how that discussion would go.

This is going to me my last reply on here about this. I'm happy with my viewpoint on it, I'm happy knowing that I've not done anything wrong or said anything I shouldn't have. I certainly don't need validation from strangers on Mumsnet nor will I let what you think of me affect me in any way.

OP - I'm genuinely sorry you're having such a tough time. I really hope you find a solution soon - whatever approach that may be x

@youngwildandni

thats not empirical research. Just admit it, there’s no evidence!

The waking three hours after bed rings real bells with me.

My ds2 was the sunniest lovely child. He would go down for naps and to bed like a dream. Then after 2.5 hours he would wake inconsolable. He had recurrent ear infections - we didn't connect the dots but an ent visit at months resulted in grommets, tonsillectomy and endoscopy - the poor child had - in the words of the ENT specialist some of the worst silent reflux he had ever seen. He was prescribed nexium and with 2 weeks slept through the night.

Ears, tonsils and reflux were all linked and he was in pain.

@Sleepfailires hoping you had a better night.

Thanks, @MolliciousIntent . I can’t honestly say better but I feel like we’ve made progress. Letting the side down on the cot really helped as I could lie with him.

I did notice last night that he was scratching at a mark on his skin so I do think that’s been bothering him far more than I realised. I put plenty of cream (aveeno) on last night and am contacting the GP this morning.

He woke at 1230 (went to bed at 815 so he actually had a longer stretch than normal) and then I finally settled him at just before half two. I tried to creep back to bed but he shouted again. So finally got there at 3. BUT - he stayed in his own bed. Problem is, that is barely sustainable, for him or me.

So I’m hoping if we can make him more comfortable that will help improve his sleep. I’m glad I didn’t do CIO though and I don’t think it would have worked if he’s waking and unsettled due to discomfort.

I hope the gp helps; eczema can drive you crazyyy so sorting that should help.

But you were the one who literally mentioned this 'research' in the first place! Now you're back pedalling- you can't be bothered and there is no evidence either way apparently.
Why mention in the first place then? In the hope no one calls you out?

dear OP you sound at the end of your tether tbh. Glad last night was a bit better.

Personally I would get some sort of sleep consultant involved.

I know you have said you don't think it would work but that's the point of it. You're running on empty and with respect, I wonder if you can see the wood for the trees. An fresh view from the outside can be what it takes.

I'm not going to offer any practical advice. You've had loads on here but I think it can get overwhelming particularly if you're sleep deprived. It's hell I know.

Good luck OP.

OP that sounds like phenomenal progress. Well done you!