What the fuck am I supposed to do now?

[Sleepfailires]

18 month DS, tried to implement gentle sleep training. The problem is he refuses to sleep in his cot. He goes down OK but then wakes 2 hours later and refuses to go back in it.

Tried ‘gentle’ sleep training, me in the room with him stroking him and reassuring him.

He went absolutely berserk when I put him back down, screaming, thrashing around, I mean really hysterical screaming. Then after twenty minutes (and I was right by the cot) he vomited.

I am an absolute wreck, I am fat, my skin is grey, I am exhausted, broken, depressed, my relationship is suffering as we get no time together, we can’t think of having another child, my work is suffering. I don’t know what to do.

I found your approach interesting. How old was your son when you did this?

Ours is just over one year and I cant see that this would work on him. He just goes from hapilly smiling to full volume scream if the breast isnt there when he needs it. Its now better as he can crawl and walk about and lift tops to show he needs breast.

I just co-slept till he was 3. I got more sleep that way than any other way. He wouldn't have anything to do with DH at night. Will still only sleep 8/9 hours max at 6. But does sleep soundly now.

I don’t have any advice (sorry) but I wanted to say you are not a shit parent. Some babies are extremely difficult and lack of sleep is torture. I hope things improve for you.

I think 18 months is such a headfuck time if you have a non sleeper, because most other families have found something that works for them - either their babies sleep through by this age or they have just decided to go with it and are co-sleeping or whatever. You've sailed through all of the moments where people have trouble with sleep and it gets better. The 3-4 month bit. The 8-9 month bit. The 12 month bit. Every time you've had hope something will finally click and it just doesn't and people's constant obvious advice "Oh have you tried having a bedtime routine??" is just obnoxious. Baby is starting to get to the age that you genuinely wonder if it is just going to be like this forever. (It's NOT. At some point at the very least they actually understand reasoning and bribery!)

OP you said "I don’t think he does find it hard to sleep, which is what does make me think EITHER I’ve really arsed up (which is my suspicion to be honest - I don’t know any other child who behaves like this) or there is something more to it."

Honestly - some children just need more reassurance at night than others. And I don't think you can fuck it up to this degree. Yes you can make "bad" habits (I hate framing them as bad because I don't think they are, if they work) but you can usually undo them if it's just that.

I think this is why the delay tactic helped - because I was completely stuck in the mindset that he needed a feed ASAP and it was an emergency, and just going and deliberately doing it all slowly helped me see that it wasn't an emergency, and he could let me know he was displeased without actually being in intense distress when it wasn't happening immediately. That just gave me a bit more confidence in myself which helped.

You've said you're looking at red flags for autism as well. Again I think 12-18 months is a hellish time development wise if you're prone to worrying and comparing because there are so many milestones that are "supposed to" happen around this age but can often be later in the window for no reason at all. Not saying that there is no reason to suspect autism at 18 months, just that there is a lot of variation even in normal development at this age. But it could all fit together anyway - sensitivity and sensory seeking and reassurance.

Sounds like you're exhausted two thoughts from me if useful.

You mentioned shortening naps recently and also you can set your clock by when he wakes up. One of mine woke at a particular time each night (about 3 hours in) every night and was hard to settle. He was actually overtired going down. For him he was definitely a 'sleep begets sleep's kind of child. He'd wake up after only a few hours and go mad because he wanted to be asleep. Worth bringing bedtime forwards a bit?

Also you mentioned the MN 'dad brings the child to the west wing to settle' crowd but with one of mine we HAD to get DH to be able to settle him and we were in a 2 bed flat with our rooms next to each other but honestly I just had to leave him to it. I'd like in bed in tears listening to him howl for me and just had to stay there and let DH deal because truthfully he was safe and with someone who loves him and who he loved. Took a few nights but it worked. Short term awfulness though.

I am too tired myself to read the thread, sorry.
I am completely sympathetic; I know just what you mean when they scramble about in their sleep.
I wondered if a weighted blanket would help to reassure him.
Also if you could get away even for one night to help you catch up…your parents, a friends? I know you would worry about distressing him but it might be better than you think.
Nursery children often cope much better than their parents think they will.
The frantic crying is upsetting, I know that, but he needs to learn that he is safe in his own bed, for his own sake as well as yours.
What if you had to go into hospital, for example?
We had nursery children, twins, so distraught because they had never been away from their mother, that they vomited whenever she left. It took weeks to settle them, but they were fine eventually and enjoyed being at nursery. She, and they, and the staff, just had to endure the interim.

i know how hard it is but he's just a baby. I believe cry it out training to be cruel - do whatever you need to do so long as it's kind. your baby needs to be close to you

Thanks @BertieBotts . Just so, so fed up and worn down by his poor sleep by now, and like I say, it’s not as if the bad sleep is something most people can relate to. I just get endless ‘just gradually retreat’ 😭

Controlled crying works. You have to be really consistent and persistent. Thing is OP, he won't vomit every time. He might never vomit again. By focusing on this aspect you are cutting off options for yourself.

We had to do controlled crying with my now 3yo who would only sleep latched on. DH had to do all of it, because he wouldn't tolerate it from me. I put earplugs in and slept through it. It wasn't pleasant, but it was quick and effective. And DC is completely fine, well attached, my mental health is no longer in shreds and I have a better relationship with DH.

I just think you have to prioritise yourself. People just don't get it when you have a shit sleeper past baby stage. I felt like a total fuck up and couldn't talk to most of my friends about it because their babies slept fine and always felt like they secretly judged me.

I also found my friends who also had shit sleepers were totally opposed to any kind of sleep training and happy to co-sleep forever. I didn't tell them I did controlled crying, due to feeling judged.

At a certain point you have to put yourself first because your DC will be fine, they adapt. It's not your fault, you didn't do anything wrong, but doing nothing would be a poor decision, for your own sake.

Op have you considered what I mentioned up thread?
I really do think he is treating the 3 hours as a nap and thats why hes getting so wound up.
Every time you go in hes melting down as he cant understand why you arent getting him up.
If you had a camera monitor you could check he is safe without stoking the flames.

OP you said "I don’t think he does find it hard to sleep, which is what does make me think EITHER I’ve really arsed up (which is my suspicion to be honest - I don’t know any other child who behaves like this) or there is something more to it."

I dont think you have arsed up Op I think you need to consider that he just hasnt got the concept of night time sleep yet .

When my daughter was 18 mths she absolutely refused to sleep in the cot anymore so we put her in a single bed with loads of pillows on the floor in case she fell out. She never fell out and slept so much better in the bed. Not sure if anyone has suggested this as I haven't read every response so apologies if someone had already said this.

I agree with this completely. The fact that he vomited this time doesnt mean he will every time. You do really need to be consistent, every time you try doing gentle sleep training and he objects to you leaving and then you 'give in' then this reinforcres the behaviour.

Of course if he vomits you need to change him but then you need to put him back to bed and continue the process. It is difficult in the short-term but long-term it does work.

If you have doubts about doing it you are better not to try at all and use another approach. Good luck.

Op, I know you’re exhausted and feel defeated but there is no magic wand reply that’s going to get your ds to sleep. There are however many good suggestions on this thread but you’re not in the right frame of mind (understandably) to take them in. Can you get your DH to read it through and see if he’s up for implementing any of the ideas with you?

Just here to send you massive solidarity as my second didn’t sleep more than 45 minutes at a time for ten months and then I had to do some CIO because I was worried that with extreme sleep deprivation I was hovering on the edge of pp psychosis.

if I recall correctly, she screamed for 20-30 mins while I sat down stairs with fingers in ears, crying, then she did conk out for five hours and that changed everything.

People don’t understand how hard it is to even form a coherent plan when you haven’t slept for months. My dc didn’t even start to sleep properly from then but it got a tiny bit better which is something I’m sure you would take - if you were able to get 6 or 7 hours a night with 5 unbroken you probably wouldn’t know yourself. I do remember going to work on 1 hours sleep though. I was on a really sexist IT team and it really didn’t help them take me seriously at all that I was like a zombie.

Also other countries don’t necessarily take the same responsive approach, it seems to be very anglophone world and so torturous I’m not surprised it’s stopping you getting to a second, it’s the reason I don’t have 3.

French children don’t throw food I found helpful but 18 months might be too old.

Probably the best thing for me was going with the mattress beside cot version for a bit. I used to sleep with my arm through the cot to hold them.

it’s SO HARD.

Oh @Sleepfailires not for nothing is sleep deprivation a form of torture.

This stage with your DC will pass - it has to otherwise the human race would have died out long ago - but for now each day is really tough going.

Were it possible to e-send you some sleep, plenty here would send some your way to help get your through.

You are a plenty good mum.

@Easilystartled this has been a very supportive thread - just because I may not say so to every post it is!

@Easilystartled this has been a very supportive thread - just because I may not say so to every post it is!

Hi @Sleepfailires

I have 3 kids and had to do CIO with my eldest and youngest because the gentler methods didn't work. It is so hard. Even harder to make these decisions when we are so sleep deprived.
The only thing that worked for my middle child was being with him all the time. Whether that was holding for naps, rocking back to sleep in the night, co-sleeping, lying on the floor by his cot bed and stroking his head/arm until he was asleep. Even until recently (hes 4 now) sitting on the end of his bed until he fell asleep.

My youngest appeared to be going the same way and so after 3 months of trying different methods such as shh pat and gradual withdrawal and my dh getting a new job which he needs sleep to be able to do sadely, we decided on CIO. It worked in 3 nights and dc cried in total for 24 minutes over those 3 nights. 14 minutes night 1, 6mins night 2, and 4 mins night 3. Sleeps all night and has 4 dummies in her cot and settles herself during the night without crying.
It has genuinely changed everything for us. I can totally relate to the feeling of your relationship suffering and wondering why did you even do this in the first place.

I dont have any proper advice but just wanted to say I can relate, and share my experience that sometimes you have to do what you have to do, and sometimes its not as bad as you expect.
Fingers crossed for you OP that things change soon and you get some much needed rest. Sending love.

@Sleepfailires
You've probably Googled this to death already, but in case you haven't - there might be some bits here which are useful to you. It's not the same, as the child in question doesn't go to sleep in the first place (whereas yours does), but it might be possible to try the same things but at 11PM when he wakes up. I realise these are probably things you've done a million times, but the 'sickness' element is similar, and there might just be something that helps. www.ginaford.com/sleeping-faq-18-24-months-settling-sleep-associations-4/
My DC were all Gina babies (so shoot me, MN) - not entirely hardline, but I followed the basic principles and it did work (one of my DC wasn't an easy baby).

OP I've raised 4, all totally different and I don't think it is anything to do with how I parented them, they just had different personalities from day 1. I've had the brilliant sleeper, the one who slept soundly but didn't need 12 hours (more like 8) the one who woke up at 5 am and the one who coslept.

People saying cosleeping is idealised, well maybe it is but so is sleep training. If it works for you then you think it is the answer but it won't work for everyone.

I think the number 1 rule for managing to get some sleep with cosleeping is one adult in the bed, never bothered me as DH was a terrible snorer so for me a fidgeting baby was a hell of a lot more restful than the pneumatic drill next to me. The point is you do what you have to do.

I'd say if you want to sleep train, gentle or otherwise, don't do it today, in fact don't do it this week. Leave it so this episode isn't fresh. I think someone mentioned night terrors, my GS had them and they are awful but you don't realise until they are a bit older and you realise they are terrified. My GS grew out of them so hopefully if it is that it will settle.

I have every sympathy, being sleep deprived is absolute hell. Can his dad alternate with you or is it you he has to have?

The good news is it passes and you get your revenge when you are forcing a sleepy teenager to get out of bed for school.

I’m really glad you see it that way! Just don’t give up, you will find some thing that will work and you will get back to enjoying life and your DS x

God you have my sympathy. i remember my DS1 being like that at that age. It was like once he'd had a few hours sleep if he came into a light sleep again he just found it hard to go back to sleep again and he wasn't happy about it. I think he really suffered at this age with molars coming through. There used to be something called Medised which unfortunatley you can't buy now I don't think, but it was a bit of a lifesaver at the time because it contained a mild sedative, and when the teething was at its worst it did help him a lot to drop back off again. Some parents abused the sedative part though and just used to give it to their babies anyway so it got banned....

It's hard cos they're all so different. Once over colic, DS2 was such an easy sleeper. He still is now he's 16, just gets into bed and is off to sleep straight away. DS1 was difficult, he is 18 now and still finds it hard to drop off, mind whirring....I tried the controlled crying with him and he worked himself into hysteria which increased each time I went in and he vomited in the end so it didn't work for him. He was a sweaty hysterical mess. We did the gradual retreat. Was slow going and he definitely put up a fight at first but at least there was no vomiting. It was the right solution for him. I would have been at my wits' end if that hadn't worked. No solutions but I'm so sorry for you. Hopefully it is just a "disturbed sleep because of teething" thing and will pass.

Just to note, I did NOT do the controlled crying to him when he was 18. 😂

@Sleepfailires I have been in EXACTLY this situation. EXACTLY. And EVERYONE says Oohhh just be tough for a few nights and he’ll get the message. Well mine DID NOT get the message. He screamed so violently we would genuinely be scared for him. Like exorcist style scary. You couldn’t stop him. He did this once for 7 hours. And after a month of gentle sleep training he’d still wake up and start screaming about 6 times a night as opposed to 8 or 9.

Our problem was that a) he wasn’t a naturally good sleeper and b) He was “addicted” to milk in a bottle. It was his only soothing technique. He couldn’t settle himself back to sleep whatsoever no thumb sucking. Refused dummies. Doesn’t care for cuddly toys/soothers. Etc.

He'd do this in our bed too so it wasn’t much different, though when he DID sleep he’d sleep better.

He also has few words, even now at almost 2, which hasn’t helped because his way of expressing himself at night is to scream. He’s fine during the day, happy. and just points and says the odd word when he wants something.

Anyway it drove me to near breaking point.
Eventually we just accepted that he’s a rubbish sleeper and tried to pre-empt him. Like be near to jump in before he stirred. Give up on having an evening downstairs watching a film. Just wait til he’s 2 and it should start to get better. And keep telling yourself he won’t be like this when he’s 16 so it is going to change.

Also, ours got a heat rash and needed antihistamines. Put him to sleep nicely so took the opportunity to remove the bottle during this week. He’s slept much better after this because he’s got over his milk issue and is starting to improve majorly. He still demands a drink in the night (via screaming) but has a lidded cup. Even had some full nights sleep!

There’s sleep helplines - Google and use. But generally might be better not to fret and just go with it. And try speaking to your health visitor/gp but expect the response to be different based on who you get. And just block out people who had a kid who slept after three nights of being ignored because some kids just will NOT.