11 yo DD just hit me and pushed me to the ground.

[reallyupset11yodd]

Looking for some advice. Background is DD does have a temper and has pushed her younger brother and is the most challenging of my children. She is not spoilt but has a lovely family, home, school, friends, a phone and laptop.

DH is away all weekend and I am alone with 3 kids for mothers day. I said at dinner time to DD (11) and DS (9) I was hurt they hadn't given a card or gift for mothers day. DS immediately felt awful, ran to get the gift he had previously bought me and he and youngest DD (2) gave me a cuddle and apologised. DS then told DD she should be doing something (dh had apparently left a box of chocs and card with DD for her to give me). DD chased DS and hurt him, I sent hereto her room and followed her upstairs. I told her she could still eat dinner but I would be taking the lollipops she had saved in her drawer so she wouldn't eat them. She launched herself at me, pushed me to the ground and hit me in the head while screaming swear words at me. I calmly took her laptop, ipad and phone.

She has since told me she wishes I would die, she has pulled all the bedding off all beds and pulled my office drawers out so my work is all over the office.

I don't know what to do. I am sat here crying wondering how it could get to this point. What would you do in my situation?

I think your comment was meant to make the children feel sorry / bad about themselves. The whole "they forgot about mother's day" could have been handled differently as has been pointed upthread.

Siblings will fight and bicker, to some extent this is normal but hurting needs to be tackled which you did.

Preteens can have a temper - raised voices and door-slamming I would expect of an 11 year old. The level of violence in this attack, together with the swearing, are IMO quite unusual and unacceptable. You did nothing that warranted that response OP.

I would speak to the school- in case they have advice and because they need to know that DD can react violently, even to adults. Also I would like to know if she has witnessed violence in school, is she bullying or being bullied? I would also make a GP appointment and see what help is out there. I expect this might trigger some sort of SS involvement. Did any of your other DC see or hear the attack? They must be scared and very confused.

Also I would explain all this (speaking to school and gp) to DD. She needs to understand thst what she has done is serious and unusual enough to warrant professional involvement. Oh and no technology until you feel she understands what she has done and shows remorse.

I don't think it is "blaming" the OP - its recognising the situation is out of control and trying to provide some strategies that help.

Some of the responses blaming the op is just shocking. In no world is this acceptable, she did not chase and goad her daughter about the card, she confiscated her sweets for attacking her much younger brother. It's GBH, if an adult did it to another adult they'd be charged and up at court for it. Op in all honesty I think your daughter does need an intervention, but if she has no special needs etc I'd be tempted to get th police to warn her if she was my child. I agree with PP about asserting dominance, obviously it's too late for that now but your daughter needs to learn from this or I'm afraid the attacks could become more frequent.

@ReadtheFT

One of the times where I think it would be good for DC to see parents lose their shit. Staying calm, not raising your voice... Fuck that. A good smack to remind her who's in charge. Outbursts yes, violence to your own mother? Not acceptable in the slightest. She s 11,not 20. I would also not talk to her for a while, remove all privileges and get her to fox the mess(beds and work papers). After that a good chat, reading books and all that stuff.

You can definitely tell the difference in this thread between people speaking from considered profession or personal experience, and the people making stuff up

To add my daughter had no emotional regulation.
When upset/ angry, she would hurt herself, me or siblings. She'd physically run away. Was awful. So many people suggested SEN. I received lots of suggestions about basically rewarding thr behaviour by giving her special sensory toys that only came out when she was behaving like this. Special cool down kits for out and about....
Really working through a bit of old fashioned CBT in a heads on way is what she needed.

@Comedycook

I said at dinner time to DD (11) and DS (9) I was hurt they hadn't given a card or gift for mothers day

I'm not excusing her behaviour but I don't think you should have said this. They are really young still and most kids wouldn't remember without another adult to prompt them.

Exactly what l thought .

@Bluetrews25

Well, at the age of 11 if she'd done this to anyone else, she could be looking at assult charges as she's over the age of criminal responsibility. Is DD aware of this? Unacceptable behaviour to anyone is not acceptable either when done to her DMum. No idea how to manage this, though!

If this was a thread about an 11 year old doing this to one of her peers people would be saying to get the police involved.

But because it's her mum people are victim blaming and excusing the violence.

I know it would feel like a massive thing to do but if this happens again you should think about calling the police.

"OP you did nothing wrong" has been said a few times. The logic of that is that OP should carry on exactly as she has been, which will result in exactly the same behaviour (actually probably worse) from the DD. It isn't victim blaming to say that there are strategies that work better. OP's currently aren't.

Guilt =/= empathy. That's the first thing to know. The opposite actually. Guilt makes us angry and avoidant. Which is what the DD is currently. Empathy is made by modelling it and 'fixing' things. So OP didn't get anything for Mother's Day. Don't say you're 'hurt', tell them what you want. Something easy to achieve and early in the day so they can move in a positive way in the rest of the day. "DD because it's Mother's Day could you grab me X, I'd love that". In my house it would be tea but what ever works in yours. DD then gets to achieve a small act of kindness and also remember it's MD and get the card/present without guilt if she's forgotten.

Work on the relationship. The behaviour comes from the relationship. Work on a loving, guilt-free, happy, joking, fun relationship, where you talk about her good qualities often. Where you have a relentlessly positive story about her. Not about how she's challenging. But about how she's a leader, strong, decisive. The behaviour's are dealt with but the character is celebrated.

Stop with the disappointment, hurt, sadness and all that. It's absolutely maddening. You can be angry (calmly angry) about behaviours. "That is NOT acceptable DD", stern face and tone. Immediate and natural consequences. However, I wouldn't give consequences for a lack of presents and cards. I know it's controversial on here but forced love/apologies/thanks from children is worse than nothing to me. It's performative and makes them less effective adults. You need to work on them actually feeling grateful and enjoying doing nice things. Not make them feel bad if they don't.

It's not victim-blaming. It's saying you need a different style of parenting for this child. Child. Remember that.

Some of this is because I have had a mother whose only skill was guilt. I was a dreadful, awful, nasty teenager because it elicited horrible anger in me. I felt absolute rage. I only processed that after (although she still tries it!) and realised it wasn't actually me who was 'bad'. Although my behaviour was.

@Pumperthepumper

I’m not excusing it. I’m saying an 11 year old doesn’t have the same control an adult does.

Nobody is expecting an 11 year old to have the same control as an adult.

But I think you can expect an 11 year to not beat someone’s head while they are on the ground. When they have finished that, to not trash the bedroom and the office to boot.
Wood from trees and all that.

@bellac11 In my friend’s daughter’s case, all the work was with the child, but I am sure you’re right that parenting is the key. Perhaps CAMHS isn’t the right body but there should be some support available.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people to ask about MH and SEN- definitely possible factors. But OP has said no issues.

A teacher who had the best behaviour management skills always started by apologising to the physically or verbally aggressive student for the fact that he as the adult had made the child behave in this way. It took the heat out of the situation and the student would always want to insist that actually they had been at fault. Nine times out of ten the student was full of remorse and ended up tearfully apologising.

@reallyupset11yodd My sweet and kind sn boy turned violent at 14 with the hormonal surge of adolescence completely out of blue. I know you say your daughter is 11 and no sn and I'm not implying that but it very well could be a lack of empathy or oppositional defiance disorder or something that needs exploring. My son's violence was only directed at me but it was enough to call the psychiatrist he was regularly seeing and we had emergency phone consultation and coordination of care at the emergency room. It took four months for diagnosis and regulation of Rx to tree his bipolar disorder. You did nothing wrong so ignore the posters saying you did. Call her GP and try to get a referral to a pediatric psychiatrist or a developmental behavioral pediatrician.

Her life is going to be a hell of a lot more miserable if someone doesn’t get a grip of her now. I’ve spent years working with young people and seeing the results of the sort of parenting you advocate. It isn’t pretty and doesn’t lead to happy adults.

@CanIPleaseHaveOne so why didn’t the 11 years old stop? Evil? Some biological need for violence?

I would look into adhd.
My dd (now adult) was diagnosed at 18. According to her psychiatrist who diagnosed her said that girls develop symptoms at puberty and it is always put down to hormones.
With her, lack of impulse control was a classic sypmptom
She went on anger management things that talked about counting to 10, she couldn't count to 1.

@RJnomore1 I’m a teacher. I promise you, I’ve seen the damage punishments cause. I don’t punish, ever.

*to treat his bipolar

I'm struggling to see what she has done wrong to cause this to happen. I hope you are ok and manage to get your daughter the help she needs as obviously this cannot happen again.

I agree that sounds concerning. However, I also agree with the PP about the guilt trip - I do think it sounds like this is what you were doing. They're little kids. My husband forgot (my kids are 3 and 1) about mothers day today! And honestly, that's fine - he's a brilliant husband and it's not a big deal. Might she constantly feel as though she is being 'got at'? I know that doesn't excuse violent behaviour, and I might be way off as obviously this is only a snapshot, but that was my first thought.

@MrsTerryPratchett - great post. I hope OP takes on your advice.

My guess is that she ate the chocolate and thought she had got away with it. When you brought it up she felt shame and doesn't know how to deal with it. We all deal with shame differently there's those who attack themselves (that's me), those who attack others, those that deny and those that avoid. Are there any other instances where she's been violent that could have been promoted by shame?

Yes, that would be my guess too.

I am also shocked by some of the replies. I don't think there is anything wrong with telling your children they have hurt your feelings with their lack of effort. Surely when their dad brought the items he told them it was mother's Day on Sunday.

The tantrum is completely uncalled for an a massive overreaction. Children much younger than 10 are aware they shouldn't be violent. I too would have removed the tech. After she had the chance to calm down I would make her remake the beds and pick up the paperwork too.

First of all I’m sorry it’s been a challenging day

Secondly, this sounds exactly like something my youngest would do in a similar situation. She suffers from crippling anxiety and it manifests in massive outbursts, especially if she feels accused of doing something wrong. Could it be that that caused it?

When something like this happens here we “try” to stay as calm as possible and get her to go to her room to calm down - it’s pointless to try and talk to her while in a rage. Then we get massive amounts of remorse and tears from her. Always.

I think you really need to talk to her when things are calmer.

E.g I understand that you were feeling angry/frustrated ect when I took your lollies away. I took them away as a punishment for hurting your brother. It's okay to feel angry but it is not okay to hurt people or swear at them. You hurt your bother and you hurt mummy. What can you do to make thing better? What do you think your punishment should be? How can you do things differently in the future?

I think the headspace kids app might be helpful.

www.headspace.com/mindfulness/activities-for-kids

It might also be worth talking to the school or HV to see if there is any anger management support available.