11 yo DD just hit me and pushed me to the ground.

[reallyupset11yodd]

Looking for some advice. Background is DD does have a temper and has pushed her younger brother and is the most challenging of my children. She is not spoilt but has a lovely family, home, school, friends, a phone and laptop.

DH is away all weekend and I am alone with 3 kids for mothers day. I said at dinner time to DD (11) and DS (9) I was hurt they hadn't given a card or gift for mothers day. DS immediately felt awful, ran to get the gift he had previously bought me and he and youngest DD (2) gave me a cuddle and apologised. DS then told DD she should be doing something (dh had apparently left a box of chocs and card with DD for her to give me). DD chased DS and hurt him, I sent hereto her room and followed her upstairs. I told her she could still eat dinner but I would be taking the lollipops she had saved in her drawer so she wouldn't eat them. She launched herself at me, pushed me to the ground and hit me in the head while screaming swear words at me. I calmly took her laptop, ipad and phone.

She has since told me she wishes I would die, she has pulled all the bedding off all beds and pulled my office drawers out so my work is all over the office.

I don't know what to do. I am sat here crying wondering how it could get to this point. What would you do in my situation?

@Walton45123

It’s incredibly obvious but people from stable backgrounds have no awareness and so are instantly leaping to mothers defence.

This isn’t counter transference from my part, I have a close relationship with my own mother but I’ve worked in the field for many years now. I know that does not make me an expert.

If this child has no SEN something within her environment (family dynamic) is making her explode with rage at her mother. That’s not victim blaming, that’s often a dynamic within families that can be solved through family therapy.

What usually happens is the child is “blamed” for being so awful and mother gets off the hook by pulling the “but im so concerned” card. It’s incredibly damaging to the child and takes years of adult therapy to solve (you only have to look at the responses here to know the majority think this mother is a good mother).

She might well be a great mother but she also might not be, and may lack huge awareness around her own issues.

Truth is none of us know what’s going on here. What we do know is this is NOT normal. It is totally normal for a child to explode with rage in certain families. That’s not me taking a snowflake approach, that’s just a fact.

[quote ScrollingLeaves]@EdnaDay
I am not sure from your post if you said this or IdonWanna

“I would inform the police. Would they do anything? I hope so but, whether or not, I would march her down to the station first thing in the morning to frighten the shit out out of her. if it doesn't frighten her, then she really is on the path to God knows what.”

This seems extraordinarily wrong. OP didn’t say the child has done this before.

Something somewhere is wrong for this child.

Either she has been extremely upset by something, is under great stress for some reason OP doesn’t realise, or some illness or condition is mentally/physiologically affecting her.

Plenty of police are anything but bastions of right behaviour anyway. There are plenty of thugs among their ranks.[/quote]
I didn't say that. I did ask the poster that said she would call the police what she thinks/hopes the outcome of that would be.

The child snapped. Something snapped inside of her.

It is op's job and hopefully the work of a professional to find out why so the little girl can get some proper support in place before things escalate further.
I am wondering if the pressure to 'keep Mummy happy' is something placed on her shoulders regularly in lieu of the real support that should be coming from their father. Mothers day was the final straw for all of them.

She may have eaten the chocolates, what little kid would not be tempted, she may have had enough of pandering to her mother's emotional needs, or she may be bullied at school. Her violent reaction needs to be carefully unpicked, understood and strategies put in place for the future. Emotional deregulation at this level does not appear out of nowhere. There will be a reason for it.

Family counselling could really help.

This is a bit melodramatic.. 🤷‍♀️ OP sounds like a reaction influenced by something else- I’d investigate if there is anything happening to her/others at clubs or schools.I would draw a line with consequences, but not discuss endlessly- you don’t want to reinforce a pattern.
If it is very out of character then it may be a red flag for something that is going wrong for her elsewhere-

@Swayingpalmtrees

The child snapped. Something snapped inside of her.

It is op's job and hopefully the work of a professional to find out why so the little girl can get some proper support in place before things escalate further.
I am wondering if the pressure to 'keep Mummy happy' is something placed on her shoulders regularly in lieu of the real support that should be coming from their father. Mothers day was the final straw for all of them.

She may have eaten the chocolates, what little kid would not be tempted, she may have had enough of pandering to her mother's emotional needs, or she may be bullied at school. Her violent reaction needs to be carefully unpicked, understood and strategies put in place for the future. Emotional deregulation at this level does not appear out of nowhere. There will be a reason for it.

Family counselling could really help.

This is another good post.

As are the ones asking if OP lets her daughter know she believes she “lacks empathy” and so on.

I keep coming back to this thread because it’s making me think a lot about how I do, and don’t, want to parent as my kids get older.

[quote Eyedropeyeflop]@Walton45123

It’s incredibly obvious but people from stable backgrounds have no awareness and so are instantly leaping to mothers defence.

This isn’t counter transference from my part, I have a close relationship with my own mother but I’ve worked in the field for many years now. I know that does not make me an expert.

If this child has no SEN something within her environment (family dynamic) is making her explode with rage at her mother. That’s not victim blaming, that’s often a dynamic within families that can be solved through family therapy.

What usually happens is the child is “blamed” for being so awful and mother gets off the hook by pulling the “but im so concerned” card. It’s incredibly damaging to the child and takes years of adult therapy to solve (you only have to look at the responses here to know the majority think this mother is a good mother).

She might well be a great mother but she also might not be, and may lack huge awareness around her own issues.

Truth is none of us know what’s going on here. What we do know is this is NOT normal. It is totally normal for a child to explode with rage in certain families. That’s not me taking a snowflake approach, that’s just a fact.[/quote]
It’s simply not true that you can say it is something in the family dynamic that has caused this for sure. Maybe it is, like all these posts no one really knows anyone’s home life, but equally it maybe something that has happened to her outside the home. We experienced this and it was not something that was happening in the home it was something that had happened to my child outside.

There is too much speculation on this thread and really the Op just needs to engage with professional help

I've read the majority of the posts on here, and my jaw is seriously on the floor, I never realised just how many shit parents were on Mumsnet, how many lack any basic understanding of children. There's a handful of good advice, mainly from Pumper and Mrs Terry P who actually sound like they have a decent brain in their head. The others... Call the police, hit her back, shout in her face, keep all her belongings for weeks. Jesus weep. There are some poorly parented kids out there. As for the prisons, I think quite a lot were brought up in households where their own parents were pretty 'hands on' or emotionally devoid.

@roseyfelldown

I recognise this family dynamic. Some of you won't. But I do. Red flags everywhere. Family scapegoating. Guilt tripping. Emotional blackmail.

I'm going to get into trouble for saying this but something's off here.
"I am alone with 3 kids for mothers day"
No, you are at home with your family, your own children, on Sunday.

You could have gently dropped a hint about the card/gifts, showed some humour and patience, but you made it about you, you were hurt.

9 yo and 2 yo apologising?
Ds telling Dd what to do?

Your kids have already learned they are on their own, not a family unit.
Have you considered why none of them thought about you on mothers day?
Listing what items she has to show she is from a good home?
This child behaved very badly and she needs to learn to stop this. For her sake. But she isn't the only one in this family with a problem.

I can guarantee you and your daughter won't be in contact by the time she is 20, and none of your children will speak to each other as adults.
Sorry to be so harsh.

This is a truly horrible post, and is a classic case of what happens when someone projects their own family dynamics onto somebody else's family without knowing enough about it. With luck, the OP will have stopped reading and will be seeking external support with her DD.

This is a truly horrible post, and is a classic case of what happens when someone projects their own family dynamics onto somebody else's family without knowing enough about it. With luck, the OP will have stopped reading and will be seeking external support with her DD.

It's amazing, isn't it? So many posters who seem to have mistaken the OP for their own mothers and so seem to be getting some sort of vicarious revenge. Plus the couple who think the 9 year old must be their own brothers reembodied, and deserves to be punished for all of their own brothers' sins. It's very sad but quite scary (particularly as they seem to be parents themselves) how many people approach the situation entirely through the lens of their own trauma and twist the facts to fit.

If this child has no SEN something within her environment (family dynamic) is making her explode with rage at her mother. That’s not victim blaming, that’s often a dynamic within families that can be solved through family therapy.

One thing that strikes me is that this child has a phone, an ipad and a laptop in her bedroom. Is any of that supervised, or does she just have free access to the internet? Because I'd be concerned about what she is seeing and experiencing online.

One thing we can all agree on is that this reaction is extreme and unusual, and the whole family needs support.

@TrippinEdBalls That's quite a big assumption you're making! As someone on the "let's read this situation with some detachment from OP's version" side, I can assure you that I have a wonderful, close and loving relationship with my mum. It's far from being the case that anyone who is bringing something other than wholehearted endorsement of OP's version of events must be themselves mired in a difficult family dynamic (and indeed, those that are shouldn't have their insights dismissed).

If an 11 yr old girl has a sudden massive meltdown like this, I would also be wondering if she has masked autism. Has she eaten a whole box of chocolates in one go, is she pre-menstrual, is she addicted to sugar?

@wishmyhousetidy

Indeed you are right. Something could be going on outside of the home. In which case it would most certainly be serious enough to warrant reactions as violent as that. Either way there will be a reason for it.

@Innocenta

I agree. It’s dangerous to just assume this child is acting out because “she’s a spoilt brat”.

There will be reasons and they need unpicking professionally. OP said her daughter has a temper, this is most probably code for “my child has not controlled her emotions for a while and it’s escalated into a crisis on Mother’s Day”.

@SpaceshiptoMars

Potentially undiagnosed autism.

This isn’t nothing to do with eating a whole box of chocolates or feeling hormonal. This cannot be excused as hormonal, pre teen, stroppy behaviour.

This is explosive, violent rage.

How are you today OP?

@doingmydoodie I think it’s a far bigger issue that loads of respondents are reading a mother’s account of a kid clearly completely losing her shit, and deciding she must simply be a bad seed and there’s no point trying to understand what led to her clear distress.

The brother was just being a nine year old, the issue is a potential family dynamic where he’s allowed to “join in” if his older sister is in trouble, or where she’s continually compared negatively to him. Comparison between siblings is rarely if ever a good thing imo.

The mother didn’t deserve to be hit or pushed. It’s right to make it clear that’s never acceptable no matter what. Surely it’s also important to try and understand what exactly led to that kind of emotional loss of control. Why did the child get as upset as she did? It’s not like she did some calm and sadistic, she was very unhappy.

@Eyedropeyeflop Yes, absolutely. I really don't think anyone on this thread believes it's okay for the DD to engage in violence. But in order to move forward the family needs to understand their dynamic as a whole.

[quote Eyedropeyeflop]@SpaceshiptoMars

Potentially undiagnosed autism.

This isn’t nothing to do with eating a whole box of chocolates or feeling hormonal. This cannot be excused as hormonal, pre teen, stroppy behaviour.

This is explosive, violent rage.[/quote]
I'm suggesting that a combination of triggers may have pushed an undiagnosed girl with autism to suddenly unmask. It is speculation based on my experience, just like most of the replies!

With luck, the OP will have stopped reading and will be seeking external support with her DD.

I very very much hope so. This thread is absolutely appalling. The OP made one questionable but human comment to her kids, and apparently she deesrves to have been attacked to the floor and punched in the head. Her nine year old told his older sister she should go and get her present, and he's 'shit stirrer'.
I have no idea what kind of a lens people are reading this tiny vignette of family life through, but it's not a clear or normal one.

If you're still here, OP, I hope you're doing okay. And yes, please tell someone - the school or your GP probably.

@TrippinEdBalls

I feel really uncomfortable with some of the posts blaming the little brother and saying that the OP must make sure he doesn't trigger his sister like this again. I don't see why it's so terrible for OP to make her child feel guilty but absolutely fine to give another child the message that they must walk on egg shells and control their behaviour at all times as otherwise it'll be his fault if his sister gets violent again.

Now that is a very good point! We have no real evidence that they boy was goading his sister, he may have just been reminding her that she needed to fetch the items their father had already supplied to the daughter. It is assumed, just as there are various assumptions being made about the mother's behaviour. And there is a huge irony here; how to put this? There seems to be a few posters who while getting catbum faced about punishing the child are in fact punishing the MOTHER to a quite remarkable degree. "Punishment doesn't work" they chant, while berating a woman who has, everything else aside, had a pretty terrible shock. What does this achieve? Before anybody starts I am not a huge fan of over punishing children, never used the sort of 'I'm taking your tech away for a month/you can't go out with your friends for weeks' type punishment as it just breeds resentment but there absolutely must be consequences.

@SpaceshiptoMars

That’s understandable and having worked with females on the autistic spectrum who can lash out violently that could be an explanation. Although it is worth mentioning I’ve never had a lady on the spectrum lash out at me as I’ve made sure I’ve read her care plan/wishes and respected her boundaries. It’s very rare for them in services to engage in violent behaviour if their care is good and person centred.

However we also can’t just assume this young girl has a diagnostic condition such as autism. This is dangerous practice as it could mask an unhealthy dynamic within the home and lead to this girl being pathologists unnecessarily because no one bothered to investigate her unmet needs.

*pathologised

@saraclara Discussing the wider dynamic of the family is not tantamount to saying that OP deserved it. On the contrary, many of the posters engaging in such analysis have gone out of their way to emphasise (sometimes repeatedly) that they mean no such thing. So by claiming that that is what people are saying, you're just upping the distress quotient of the thread for no reason at all.

@reallyupset11yodd I am so sorry that your daughter was violent towards you. Violence and abuse are never acceptable, even from your child. I work for a domestic abuse charity and we are seeing a lot of cases of child to parent violence. It is often very difficult for parents to effectively tackle violence from their children as you understandably feel concern for why your child is using violence against you, and may feel concerned about the impact that getting services like the police involved could have on their future.

Please know that help is available, from professionals not just people on Mumsnet! Family Lives provide specialist support for families whose children are violent or abusive in other ways - see here www.familylives.org.uk/advice/primary/behaviour/challenging-behaviour. You might also want to look at resources from, or make contact with, organisations such as Young Minds that can help you and your DD learn how to manage her anger.

I hope you are able to get the help you and your DD need.

Moonface123 and others who are calling for the police to be summoned.

Stop it please. That line of thinking about a 12 year old s abhorrent.