Not allowed to say no to 3 yr old niece

[Scotti84]

My DHs sister has 2 kids, 3 and 8 yrs old, and we have a 4 month old and apparently have very different parenting opinions. The 3 year old is very cute and funny, but shes very obviously the favorite child of my SIL and is allowed to do whatever she wants, which is fine but not when it comes to our daughter. When we first took her round after she was born my SIL gave our daughter a bottle and just passed it to our niece to feed DD, didnt ask if it was OK and then laughed because obviously she couldn't do it properly and was disinterested so DD couldnt get the milk. Since then if we gave her a bottle her Dad feeds her or I've stuck to breastfeeding but 3 Yr old always wants to do it and tries to take the bottle from us. I take DD to another room to BF and 3 yr old wants to come with, DH keeps her out but then she tantrums and SIL and MIL say things like ok go and watch but just be quiet. She is allowed to wipe DDs bum and put cream on when they change her nappy, she asks constantly to hold her but as soon as she has her on her knee she doesnt hold her properly and DD is very wriggly atm, she almost rolled off her lap last time. I know she's only 3 so she isny old enough to do things properly but we aren't allowed to say no to her at all. She takes all DDs toys and dummies etc out of our bag and holds them by the teat, or chews her teething toys and if they visit us she moves all her stuff about (the disinfected bottles or my breastfeeding corner stuff) or goes into DDs room and rags all the toys there onto the floor and goes through all her clothes without asking. We have to hide everything before she comes (and put it all back after) which is just extra work i dont need. We're not allowed to ask her to wash her hands before she touches DD or to ask her not to get too close if she has a cold because she always wants to kiss her face which I hate anyone doing. DH has been told hes too hard on her and should let her do what she wants, but when it comes to things relating to our child shouldnt we be able to say no? I was always taught to ask before touching things that weren't mine. I dont think we're being harsh, we dont discipline her with things that arent to do with DD, and obviously a 3 yr old is nosy and wants to play, which is fine but there has to be some boundaries. Were not assholes to her, we ask nicely and explain, but if we say please don't do that, that's being too harsh!? We're starting to dread going round because we don't know how to deal with the situation now, his SIL won't accept that there's things we're not happy with her doing, but she also cried last time because she doesn't see our DD enough. Can't bloody win!

@LoisLane66 we don't have an upstairs, we live in an apartment thats all on one floor and you walk past the babys room plus our room before you get to the living room.

As i already said we're being made to feel that we are being unreasonable with what we're not okay with and having no experience i wanted to get the views of other mums. Im not complaining, im explaining the situation and asking for advice or if anyone had a similar situation, isnt that what these forums are for?

Im asking because im a new mum trying to do my best with no experience and as SIL has two kids and should understand our pov but seemingly doesnt i wanted to get opinions on whether im being too overprotective or they are being unreasonable. Its easy to read a post and reply how obvious it is but when they are the only family we have near to us and they are all having a go and saying the opposite of what we think is right for us its good to get the view of people that arent so closely involved.

My BIL/SIL and their kids are like a less extreme version of this, OP. It's not that they won't say no to their kids or insist others can't, they just never actually do so themselves. Their kids are a bloody menace to be around as a result, the whole family has a general mentality that extreme mess, dirtiness, loudness and recklessness are all part and parcel of childhood and don't need reining in at all.

My experience of these people is that they will never understand your POV and will always think everyone else is being precious. This is a very common disagreement between parents, you're by no means the first to experience that clash, if it helps! .

@loislane66 ok, i think youve made your point. You are perfect, your children are perfect and i have a sad life because I dont want to ruin a relationship with the only family we have here and I am trying to find a way to not upset the 3 yo because im not a bitch.

@aSofaNearYou thats the kind of answer that is very helpful thank you. Its good to know its not just us and if taking a hard line is the only way to do it and compromise wont work then we'll just have to be hard with them and keep making our point if they like it or not. Its a shame, but if they arent able to understand then thats on them i guess

Ah! I see regarding the layout. Sorry, I wrongly assumed it was a house.
Perhaps you could fit catches on your and your baby's rooms near to the top of the door so she can't reach to enter.
It can be a minefield being a first time mum but everyone has to make their own choices according to family dynamics. You're not alone in feeing that you have no voice in stopping your niece's actions and I hope you find a solution you're comfortable with.

It's not up to her mother to say she can do something with your baby. It's up to you. Just say no. I would. If SIL doesn't like it; she can take her brat elsewhere for the day.

Stick up for your baby. Say loudly in everyone's presence 'no cuddles until hands are washed' 'no we don't throw babies clothes thank you back downstairs' 'no we don't touch her dummies or bottlers thank you lets put this bag away' and rinse and repeat.

Erm why are you allowing your daughter to be treated this way! Set boundaries. It's completely unacceptable. Stand up for her and yourself! She sounds like a spoilt brat.

when it comes to things relating to our child shouldn't we be able to say no?

Absolutely and you are entitled to have YOUR wishes about YOUR child respected just as SIL/MIL expect their wishes to be respected!

if taking a hard line is the only way to do it and compromise wont work then we'll just have to be hard with them and keep making our point if they like it or not. Its a shame, but if they arent able to understand then thats on them i guess

It is absolutely on them and frankly some of what they seem to consider is "Ok" is quite ridiculous - snotty hands, sucking on teethers etc! Have they heard of basic hygiene?!

Its a shame as you are trying to deal with the problem in a grown up way ..but THEY are not!

Of course you can say No. If they can dictate how they want their daughter treated then you can dictate how your daughter (and her belongings) are treated. There's always going to be a bit of diplomacy required when parents are dealing with interactions between their kids. The first learning curve is always the steepest! You will have to figure it out and be direct with the SIL , just say it as it is. Explain to the daughter that because germs can make the baby sick We wash our hands before we touch the baby, we don't kiss the babys face or hands, we don't touch the babies toys and only grown ups are allowed to feed the baby or change the baby amd we dont distract the baby when she is being breastfed. Law down the law! A huge amount of childhood choking incidents are caused by older children giving babies food. Letting her feed the baby a bottle is a recipe for disaster later on. She is your daughter you have to protect her.

When we say no we're met with "oh let her help" or "she loves her so much shes been so excited waiting to see her" or something where we have to keep repeating ourselves until it becomes really awkward.

Let it.
Let it be All The Awkward.

Then make it clear "if you cannot respect our parenting decisions, it's best we leave now" AND DO IT.

Face it - you're not going to be weeping into pillow when you get fewer invitations to visit, are you? So let it rip. Not out of spite, or stubbornness, or wanting to 'win'. But because if you do not - your DD will have to endure this dynamic throughout her childhood.

The 3 year old is going to have a lot of challenges in life as she grows up.
Don't allow DD to be co-opted into being her scapegoat.

@perimenofertility

Nonsense to say you are "not allowed" to say no to all of those things. She might be someone else's child but your baby your rules. If she tries to grab the baby bottle you just say no and move her hand away, as many times as it takes. If she grabs the toys you take them back and say no these toys are for the baby, and so on. So what if she has a tantrum? All kids need to learn boundaries, she might not get them from her parents but she can still get them from you.

Exactly. You might feel like you can't say no because of the in-laws reaction but you and your DH are on the same page. Refuse to meet up or have them round if they won't respect your boundaries.

I don't think upsetting the 3 year old would make you a bitch OP

You might be doing her a favour in the long run.

Stand your ground

Op it won't change your niece's behaviour but have you thought about putting your baby in a sling for the time you are in their house? That way she wouldn't have as easy access etc. I agree with all the others / stick to your guns and don't let them overpower you x

I am now raising my grandchildren - and i am still finding my feet. I can understand why she may think it is ok for her to allow her child free rein. Maybe she thinks you are a first time mum and worry too much (which they all do (me included as a first time mother and then grandmother)). Maybe she thinks that it doesnt matter about the dummy/teats being touched and that you are too paranoid about germs. I think first time mums are WAY too paranoid about EVERYTHING (i was too) but that is a journey that first time mums must take and it does not give her the right to question or refuse to follow your judgement/values and rules for your children and what works for your family. Maybe she is just so in awe/ or tired of her child that she does not even see the effects this has on your family....?EVERY BABY that my granddaughter sees, she pretends that she is their mother and wants to change their nappy, feed them, pretend to take them to the park and then put them to bed (even if they dont want to) she is forever asking to care for her baby brother and always asks 'can you please let me pretend i am the mother today' and this is exhausting for me (and every child that she meets). But, I always ask the parents of any babies what is ok for them. It is important for your SIL to remember though - Everyone loves a 3 year old with sass - but they dont like the 12 year old with attitude !!!!!

This child sounds like she's going to be hell for primary school staff when the time comes and it'll end up making her life a misery as she won't be liked or played with by her peers. Your house, your baby, your rules and decline any invitation to their home. If they question it just tell them why. Simple.
If they take offence it's their own doing.
X

why do you have to remember that your baby comes first.
surely that is instinctive, obvious, paramount.
i can't understand your mentality.
if your baby is injured or harmed in some way, what then, will you still faff around trying to compromise with these people.
what on earth are you doing.
it really is cock-eyed.
if your baby cannot depend on her mother to protect her, to speak up for her, to control access to her, then she is already being harmed; baby has feelings too. she will feel insecure. she will feel fear.
take charge of her and don't anybody. anybody mess with her.

don't let anybody mess with her.

sorry if i sound harsh, but i am feeling concerned for that helpless baby.

@alexdgr8 i would never let any harm come to her, no chance. Its more that i am being made to feel that im being ridiculous by not wanting her to do these things, they think im an overprotective new mum and I am sick of having to argue with them when we say no or want to take her back. The whole family is very controlling. Ive spoke about it with my husband and we are just going to have to do things our way and if they argue or dont listen we'll have to either argue back or just leave. I hate unnecessary drama, i just wish they could respect our wishes but they cant seem to do that so if they won't do it we'll just have to stop going round. And if it causes a rift in the family because they think im being unreasonable then thats their issue. DD comes first.