Not allowed to say no to 3 yr old niece

[Scotti84]

My DHs sister has 2 kids, 3 and 8 yrs old, and we have a 4 month old and apparently have very different parenting opinions. The 3 year old is very cute and funny, but shes very obviously the favorite child of my SIL and is allowed to do whatever she wants, which is fine but not when it comes to our daughter. When we first took her round after she was born my SIL gave our daughter a bottle and just passed it to our niece to feed DD, didnt ask if it was OK and then laughed because obviously she couldn't do it properly and was disinterested so DD couldnt get the milk. Since then if we gave her a bottle her Dad feeds her or I've stuck to breastfeeding but 3 Yr old always wants to do it and tries to take the bottle from us. I take DD to another room to BF and 3 yr old wants to come with, DH keeps her out but then she tantrums and SIL and MIL say things like ok go and watch but just be quiet. She is allowed to wipe DDs bum and put cream on when they change her nappy, she asks constantly to hold her but as soon as she has her on her knee she doesnt hold her properly and DD is very wriggly atm, she almost rolled off her lap last time. I know she's only 3 so she isny old enough to do things properly but we aren't allowed to say no to her at all. She takes all DDs toys and dummies etc out of our bag and holds them by the teat, or chews her teething toys and if they visit us she moves all her stuff about (the disinfected bottles or my breastfeeding corner stuff) or goes into DDs room and rags all the toys there onto the floor and goes through all her clothes without asking. We have to hide everything before she comes (and put it all back after) which is just extra work i dont need. We're not allowed to ask her to wash her hands before she touches DD or to ask her not to get too close if she has a cold because she always wants to kiss her face which I hate anyone doing. DH has been told hes too hard on her and should let her do what she wants, but when it comes to things relating to our child shouldnt we be able to say no? I was always taught to ask before touching things that weren't mine. I dont think we're being harsh, we dont discipline her with things that arent to do with DD, and obviously a 3 yr old is nosy and wants to play, which is fine but there has to be some boundaries. Were not assholes to her, we ask nicely and explain, but if we say please don't do that, that's being too harsh!? We're starting to dread going round because we don't know how to deal with the situation now, his SIL won't accept that there's things we're not happy with her doing, but she also cried last time because she doesn't see our DD enough. Can't bloody win!

[GreenFingersWouldBeHandy]

Of course you're allowed to say no when it comes to your child! Your SIL is raising a monster...

Your DH needs to tell her that they visit on your terms or not at all. And if she turns on the waterworks... tough. That's just manipulation. Actually, she sounds like a monster too!

[MimosaFields]

why are you putting your own baby's needs over your niece's "wants"? your job is to look after your baby not to please some toddler's wishes

[steppemum]

but also realistically, if there are toys there a 3 year old will want them, and does not have the self control to not take/pick up/touch. With that age you say, no they are not yours and you remove the toy. Anything esle is unrealisitic.

and the nappy thing - protect your dd! Think of it in terms of her space being invaded. Tell dn NO firmly and nicely and again if SIL complains, the reply is I am not comfortable with you dd doing that to my dd.

and the 'live baby doll' attitude, I would be repeating phrases like - she is not a dolly and she doesn't like that. We have to learn what the baby likes don't we? Get it into her head now that the baby has preferences and makes choises and she doesn't get to dictate those.

Honestly the more I think about it, the more I see it as laying down the whole future relationship between these two, and your SIL is oging to let her dd walk all over yours unless you nip it in the bud

[steppemum]

just say no is easier said than done when we say no and then are met with 'oh don't be like that, let her help' it turns into a fight with MIL.

If you are firm regularly, the fights will stop. They are pushing boundaries, you can crumble, or you can stand firm and make it clear where your boundaries are.
Have some set lines that you say:

I am not comfortable with her doing that.
She can help if she washes her hands.
She needs to understand dd is not a doll, and I am saying no.
My child, my choice, no, this time she cannot help.
I do not want her to help, dd needs to feed/sleep etc

[monotonousmum]

Pet peeve of mine, babies holding babies.
It might be cute for a photo every now and then, but they don't need to be holding them all the time or picking them up.
It's not like you can relax when they're holding them.

Our neice was 4 when our eldest was born, and I'll admit I was (and still am to a certain extent) a very anxious parent. My MIL just kept handing newborn over to 4yo every time she asked (every 5 mins). It was awkward, but I had to step in - one cuddle/arrive when you arrive, one when you leave. Heavily supervised.

Still winds me up now they're older and neice keeps picking 1yo up (DC2), she's been told not to repeatedly. There's no need.

[Ohmybod]

Of course you can say no! You’re an adult. Is there a backstory to you or your DH being dominated and ordered around by MIL and SIL? You have your own family now. Simply put a stop to to this. What’s the worst that can happen? That they avoid coming over? Sounds like a win win….

[aSofaNearYou]

It's really hard to understand the power dynamics at play here OP. It's not harder said than done to say no, you just say no, and then when they say "oh just let her do it", you say no again. You pick baby up, she's yours. How are they going to stop you? Leave her stuff in the car so DN can't go through it. Exercise your authority as a parent. There's absolutely nothing they can do to stop it.

They are being wildly unreasonable here. If they kick off, it really doesn't matter.

[Viviennemary]

In that case I wouldn't allow her in my house if she can't be told no

[NYnewstart]

The thing is that it will be hard to begin with to stand up to them, but it’s definitely a case of short term pain for long term gain. You’ve got to get through that initial painful fight to set up your boundaries.

“I’m sorry you feel that you feel we are too hard on your daughter, but just like you are thinking of your daughter, we are thinking of our daughter and her things. Of course we want x involved with the baby, but it’s got to be on our terms”

[HoppingPavlova]

You could be solving a lot of this yourselves. Why is the nappy bag left within reach of the 3yo. If I go to a house with young children or they come to mine I put my handbag up out of reach - it’s got medications in it, even if a 3yo snuck through it while I was distracted and after I had said don’t touch my bag, it won’t solve the potential problem. Just put the bag up out of reach. Is the door to your daughters room shit when they come. Make sure it is and that it is not opened.

Staggered that nappy changing is seen as a fun group activity, maybe bump that on the head as well. Don’t let a 3yo be responsible for holding a baby, they don’t have the right skills. Just say no, to the 3yo, SIL and MIL. Looks like you are turning it all into a conversation but no is a complete sentence and if the child keeps going or SIL/mil say it’s okay just say ‘I said no’ on repeat, no further words or explanations necessary.

[Scotti84]

@tara66 i dont think thats fair we've been saying no but are overruled by SIL and MIL. We tried compromising, tried asking her to help with things we were ok with but shes very strong willed and used to getting her own way.

@Toanewstart22 i love her, the 8 year old too, its not her fault she doesnt know what boundaries are, ill happily play with her and id love to let her be involved to where we are comfortable. I want DD to have a relationship with them and thats also whats frustrating, because i dont want that to be ruined for the future.

@babybythesea that we can try, thank you. Theres not really an argument back to that is there, because if we respect her wishes she has to respect ours and if she doesnt she can't expect us to.

[JurgensCakeBabyJesus]

I have a relative like this (aunt's niece not related to us) she's seven now so a bit older but DS is 3 so a similar age gap. She would be the same and they all just indulge her, I would get tuts and eye rolls and you're so strict, all I would say is no you can't push the pram next to the busy main road (at 4 with a newborn in it with her trying to do wheelies), he doesn't like it when you do that, see it's made him cry, he does like it when you pull faces at him, make his monkey toy dance etc. I've long suspected she had some SEN as she finds it difficult to read emotional responses/perspective take and is constantly physical and tactile in an almost compulsive way, she also had speech delay. I found if I was clear but kind about why what she was doing wasn't ok with DS and what she could do instead that he liked or was helpful, she was ok and wouldn't tantrum, and the other family members weren't so bothered as much if she wasn't crying etc. She has now been diagnosed with ASD and her mum has had a lot of parenting input which to her credit she's really taken on board so there are more boundaries now, and I guess previously she may have just been trying to avoid the melt downs.
DS is also old enough now to say no/get off me etc, however to be fair he doesn't actually seem to mind the constant touching, cuddles, picking him up and jumping up and down he thinks she's funny.

[Hoppinggreen]

We weren’t “allowed” to say no to our niece. We also weren’t allowed to gently suggest she say please and thank you to us, not have a tantrum if someone sat in her favourite chair and or ask for our children’s possessions back if she snatched them amongst many other things. This is because she’s sensitive and gets upset easily- he usual tactic was screaming “you have upset me” at anyone attempting to correct her behaviour
We totally ignored the fact that we weren’t “allowed” to do any of these things. We don’t see them much now, which is fine

[Mumski45]

@Fluffycloudland77 that's exactly what I was thinking.
@Scotti84 there is no reason why your SIL wishes should trump yours. She is not more important than you and you have just as much right to state your boundaries as she has. If she doesn't respect them then reduce contact and if she cries let her. She is using emotional blackmail to get her own way. Don't fall into the trap of letting her.

[MsAgnesDiPesto]

“I’m sorry you don’t like it, but your child’s wants aren’t more important than my baby’s needs. I will say ‘no’ to things which aren’t reasonable or affect baby’s safety.”

Nobody can argue with that. If SIL wants to tantrum over that, well, then nobody gets the benefit of you visiting.

[KevinTheKoala]

I thought this was going to be a thread about not using the word 'no' (my DD went through a phase of ignoring that word when she was 3 so we did redirection instead) but not being allowed to put any boundaries in place is just ridiculous! 3 year olds tantrum it's a part of life they shouldn't get their own way because they start playing up, especially when a 4 month old is involved. I do think 3 year should be allowed to be involved with the baby care so that they don't feel pushed out and act up out of jealousy but it needs to be in an age appropriate way - e.g can you fetch the baby wipes and nappy not feeding the baby a bottle on their own.

[Peanutbuttercupisyum]

You can say no or tell her off, definitely!! You just don’t want to as you’re worried about SILs reaction. Just say no!

[Gonnagetgoing]

Your child is 4 months old so you either see SIL and her family outside your home at a restaurant or park or not at all.

I'd be having a separate quiet word with the parents and saying you don't want not to see them but... the main reason is your baby isn't a doll. They need to parent their youngest no matter how tricky it is as a 3 year old.

If they don't step up and obey your wishes then tough on them, don't see them.

[Scotti84]

I have also tried explaining why things arent ok, such as please dont pick her up, shes getting quite heavy now and she throws her weight about, we dont want her or you to get hurt, but apparently they dont talk like that to her, they dont explain because she wouldnt listen anyway, well of course she doesnt listen if she doesnt know why she shouldnt be doing something.

Its interesting to get your guys takes on it.

@Hoppinggreen i think thats how this will end up

[Peanutbuttercupisyum]

I don’t get all this over interest in your baby either!! I have a small baby and 3 other children, no one is wanting to hold bottles/apply sudocream/kiss his face! Why won’t she go off and play?! It sounds very annoying!

[pradavilla]

You can say NO if you want and I certainly would. Stop letting her hold the baby she isn't old enough to do it properly and gets disinterested quickly.

It's your child she's holding etc so ur allowed to say no don't do that, don't put her dummy in your mouth, can you give her toys back please etc.

I'd also probably see them less as it would drive me insane that they don't tell her off.

[HoneyFlowers]

Just say "Oh let's keep the dummies in my bag as they need to stay clean for baby so she doesn't get sick". Same message.

[Justilou1]

I feel so, so sorry for the poor 8year old. I would insist on only seeing her. I would explain very clearly why.

[ANameChangeAgain]

This is horrible. What is your housing situation long term, are you able to get a place of your home? It sounds as though grannie is the boss as its her home, which is very unhealthy.

[HoneyFlowers]

"We need to be careful when holding the baby because if she falls off she will go to hospital. Let me show you...."