Not allowed to say no to 3 yr old niece

[Scotti84]

My DHs sister has 2 kids, 3 and 8 yrs old, and we have a 4 month old and apparently have very different parenting opinions. The 3 year old is very cute and funny, but shes very obviously the favorite child of my SIL and is allowed to do whatever she wants, which is fine but not when it comes to our daughter. When we first took her round after she was born my SIL gave our daughter a bottle and just passed it to our niece to feed DD, didnt ask if it was OK and then laughed because obviously she couldn't do it properly and was disinterested so DD couldnt get the milk. Since then if we gave her a bottle her Dad feeds her or I've stuck to breastfeeding but 3 Yr old always wants to do it and tries to take the bottle from us. I take DD to another room to BF and 3 yr old wants to come with, DH keeps her out but then she tantrums and SIL and MIL say things like ok go and watch but just be quiet. She is allowed to wipe DDs bum and put cream on when they change her nappy, she asks constantly to hold her but as soon as she has her on her knee she doesnt hold her properly and DD is very wriggly atm, she almost rolled off her lap last time. I know she's only 3 so she isny old enough to do things properly but we aren't allowed to say no to her at all. She takes all DDs toys and dummies etc out of our bag and holds them by the teat, or chews her teething toys and if they visit us she moves all her stuff about (the disinfected bottles or my breastfeeding corner stuff) or goes into DDs room and rags all the toys there onto the floor and goes through all her clothes without asking. We have to hide everything before she comes (and put it all back after) which is just extra work i dont need. We're not allowed to ask her to wash her hands before she touches DD or to ask her not to get too close if she has a cold because she always wants to kiss her face which I hate anyone doing. DH has been told hes too hard on her and should let her do what she wants, but when it comes to things relating to our child shouldnt we be able to say no? I was always taught to ask before touching things that weren't mine. I dont think we're being harsh, we dont discipline her with things that arent to do with DD, and obviously a 3 yr old is nosy and wants to play, which is fine but there has to be some boundaries. Were not assholes to her, we ask nicely and explain, but if we say please don't do that, that's being too harsh!? We're starting to dread going round because we don't know how to deal with the situation now, his SIL won't accept that there's things we're not happy with her doing, but she also cried last time because she doesn't see our DD enough. Can't bloody win!

Oh that poor little girl (8 year old)
I am shocked

I am also going to go one further.
I think your dh and your MIL should be calling your SIL out on her behaviour towards her own child. The are pretty downright cruel to that 8 year old

Oh my - that kid's teacher is going to have so much fun when she starts school

and I'm going to say it again.

The pattern you allow now is the pattern your dd will grow up with.
So put your boundaries for her in place now before you find yourself trying to adjudicate between two toddlers where one parent won't admit their child is ever wrong.

@SocialConnection

I remember Mum telling her stepdaughter's little boy NO when he reached to grab a kitchen knife.

DSD said "we don't use no with xx, we prefer to use reasoning and bla bla bla.'

Mum said 'failing to teach a little boy the word no creates a man who won't hear the word no.'

Boom. It didn't half go quiet.

Not the same thing at all ... but no is an important concept the child needs to understand around your baby.

This is such a great point.

@Hoppinggreen

Start setting your boundaries now to protect your child I posted up thread about my niece and it only got worse as she got older. She became very fixed on my DD (4 years older) and had tantrums if not allowed the access to her she wanted. DD was usually very patient but she had recently acquired a little brother too so did have her limits. It all came to a head when we were visiting and mil, sil and niece popped to the shop. DD came back in tears as she had been told off for being nasty by sil. It transpired that DD wanted item A so DN did too. DD didn’t want them both to have the same so asked for B instead. Unfortunately there was only 1 B so DN then wanted it and had a tantrum. DD (about 7 at the time) was asked to hand over B but she refused. She was then told she was mean and nasty and wasn’t being nice to her cousin. I epically lost my shit and as I said earlier, we don’t see them much now. Sorry it’s so long but the point is they will chuck your child under the bus to keep their child happy and you must let them.

Must NOT let them FFS

I feel sorry for the 8yo in all this. So her parents can say no to her? Just not to the 3yo? How bizarre.

The unlabelled Christmas presents is bonkers!!

Oh my - that kid's teacher is going to have so much fun when she starts school

Absolutely, poor teacher and poor kid being set up for failure from the outset.

I suspect these parents will be at the school frequently and will have the mentality that their child is being wronged as they are ‘spirited’ or ‘know their own mind’ or ‘a girl in a boys world’ or some such crap as opposed to the reality of a spoiled little shit.

To child: "Please don't do that, the baby doesn't like it".
To SIL: "Please don't allow your DD to do that to my baby. She doesn't like it".
End of.

It seems like everyone thinks the three year old takes precedence over the baby? Seems a bit odd. Anything to do with your baby you're allowed to be in charge. Your husband needs to tell his family this and that if his sister doesn't control her daughter then you and he will be saying no. Your baby is vulnerable, especially during covid times, and being careful about hygiene or her not being dropped is paramount! Better to be safe than sorry. If his family can't accept that then keep your distance until your baby is a bit older and more robust

It’s not the 3 year old that’s the problem- it’s your SIL. Boundaries for her needed!! X

If i couldn't say no I wouldn't be in the company of this child I'm afraid - in your house it's Your rules, and if you are around her or babysitting your rules also apply - this is completely unacceptable - and I reckon very poor parenting, this poor child isnr learning about good and bad behaviour, and boundaries and rules, she is going to get the nastiest shock when she starts school

Your house, your rules.

what a brat that spoilt child will grow up into.

Of course you decide what happens to your own baby, belongings and privacy. Just say no and mean it.

Honestly, are you a woman or a mouse? Get a grip. This is your baby you're talking about. Never mind not saying no. I'd be absolutely furious.

The three year old sounds like an absolute horror IMO.

@Hoppinggreen

We weren’t “allowed” to say no to our niece. We also weren’t allowed to gently suggest she say please and thank you to us, not have a tantrum if someone sat in her favourite chair and or ask for our children’s possessions back if she snatched them amongst many other things. This is because she’s sensitive and gets upset easily- he usual tactic was screaming “you have upset me” at anyone attempting to correct her behaviour We totally ignored the fact that we weren’t “allowed” to do any of these things. We don’t see them much now, which is fine

It's funny how many people are dishing out bad behaviour but can't be pulled up on it because they are sensitive. It is a easy get out clause for them justifying their crap actions.

Surely someone who is sensitive they would also be empathetic to others feelings..

@Scotti84

I think ive been trying to be respectful of SILs wishes for her 3yo, plus letting 3yo be involved to some extent because its not her fault, but its just leading to us being stressed and its not possible. Youre all right, I need to be firmer and if they dont like it then we wont visit. Its rubbish because my family live hours away, but they're they're ruining the relationship not us and i need to realise we arent in the wrong. This forum is great for that, i did start to question if we were being too harsh, because when thats all we hear, it does start to creep in your mind but these responses have made me realise my DD comes first and they should be the ones bending, not us.

We dont live with them, they have a huge house with three apartments in it, the top floor is rented out and MIL and SIL are in the other two. Thank god we dont live there, there would be no peace!

On the 8 yo, she does get the shitty end of the stick, shes been taught she needs to share everything with 3yo to the point where at xmas they just get one pile of prezzies without names on that could be for either of then, 3yo rips them all open before 8yo has chance and the ones she did get to open werent even for her. I find that so sad, the excitement of opening prezzies is knowing its for you, having someone else open yours and then giving you them is also crap. We do try and involve 8yo more because she's much calmer and does listen, but obviously what she's allowed to do, 3yo wants too. I think we need to move further away 🤦‍♀️

wow the present thing ! I have never heard of that before. That actually sounds quite cruel .

My DD would be like this with a baby.

We have kittens and given half a chance she would be dragging them round, squeezing them and treating them inappropriately. Because she is 3.

We supervise her with the kittens because she does not have the impulse control or emotional development to understand why what she wants to do is problematic. Our intervention often leads to tantrums which is a pain for us but our responsibility as the parents and the owners of the kittens.

It is unfair and irresponsible to put her in a position where she is handling a baby when she is clearly unable to do so safely. The problem is the adult supervision, not the 3 year old.

You should say no
Your house
Your baby your rules

Sounds like they are raising a right brat tbh

You’re being bullied.

Anything to do with your baby, is YOUR decision.

Say no if you want to. Three year olds need to hear it!! Their kid is going to be a total nightmare in a few years, but that’s their problem.

I’m concerned to hear that you have been letting your child have incompetent feeding and nappy changes. I would never ever have allowed that with such a small baby. You need to grow a spine and say no, both to the three year old and her bullying manipulative mother. Your baby is entitled to be fed and changed properly!!

If you can’t say no just say “that’s a grown up job and I will do it, when yoh ar geown up you can do it for your baby.”

Your baby your rules. You can and should say no to the 3 yr old, the SIL and anyone else who crosses your boundaries. Just look them in the eye and say it. If either of them kick off about it just let them, it’s their problem, not yours. Your sil isn’t holding back on her opinions or trying to be polite so why should you?

The health & welfare of your baby is paramount - be assertive and do not allow your niece to behave badly - if her mother won't say no to her she will never learn and will go from being a spoiled 3-year-old to an absolute brat. Protect your baby (nobody with a cold should be breathing over or kissing baby, especially in these Covid times! Neither should sterile bottles/comforters/teething stuff be near another child's mouth or handled by them. If standing up for yourself & your child means relatives have a bit of a sulk so be it - maybe the adults have a lot to learn as well as their favoured child! Also, your husband needs to do right by his family (you and the baby) not be cowed by his sister's unreasonable behaviour. Personally I would not let the 3-year-old anywhere near the baby for a while and tell her mother that unless she teaches her child to be respectful you will not allow her to treat your baby like a doll/plaything and you do not want her involved in any aspect of care at the moment: no bottle feeding, nappy changing, nothing. Let the child play with her toys, not your child - it is your duty to protect baby above all else.

I don't understand parents who have a favourite child. It's just cruel and hurtful. I'm seen it myself, where a 'mum' ( I use mum loosely) treats her older child differently to the others as the older child has a different dad. I find it heartbreaking

Either you have PFB syndrome or you’re just being a doormat. If a 3 year old is doing something bad or dangerous just stop her and tell her no. You don’t need anyone’s permission in your own home or when it involves your baby. It sounds as though it’s PFB though when you mention messing up the toys