School want 5yo to be removed.

[Indecisivelurcher]

I'm asking so I can perhaps pass advice on to my relatives. I think the main thing I want advice on is what sorts of things they should be asking of school.

The little boy in question is 5yrs old, in yr2. He has some issues around anger management, basically he flies off the handle and won't calm down. He has hurt a teacher before and he has hurt class mates, things like head butting. He hits his mum. He still has multiple incidents wetting himself a week. Autism and ADHD have been suggested, autism has now been ruled out by private assessment, ADHD hasn't been investigated yet. He has always been a bit of a handful but not dreadful, he can sit and concentrate well, he's bright, he's very kind to younger children.

The issue I am asking about is school seem to just exclude him. My relative has several calls a week to go pick him up, and not allow him back the following day. School have suggested they consider taking him out of the school. My relative thinks they just want to get rid of him now. They want him to go to part time hours but again that won't necessarily help with anything. Since then, they just default to exclusion, which doesn't help him. They don't seem to have a plan in place on how to help stop these behaviours. They have very full classes of 33 kids I think, 1 TA for the class and a part time SENCO. It's like they just want him out of their hair.

Thanks for reading, as I said at the start I am hoping to get some tips to pass on to my relatives to help make sure they're asking the right things of school. What would a good school be putting in place here?

Helpful. Telling a school to ‘put someone in’ there without funding them is pointless hot air. We have no spare people in my school-the deputy, senco and head are all teaching and the only TAs are assigned to children in different year groups.

@Appuskidu

Helpful. Telling a school to ‘put someone in’ there without funding them is pointless hot air. We have no spare people in my school-the deputy, senco and head are all teaching and the only TAs are assigned to children in different year groups.

It was just a first conversation.

She's told school they need to put someone in the class who can build a relationship with him
The inclusion officer has said this?
The problem will be not having the staff/budget for a 1-1. Will be interesting seeing how the school responds to that.
educationadvocacy.co.uk/sen-funding/

Yes sorry, that's what the inclusion officer said to school.

So, it comes back to your friend having written documentation of what has been done so far and what will be done in the future, copies of all the evidence collated and being up-to-date on the EHCP progress.
A teaching assistant in the class for a named child/children shouldn't be spread thinly/used as general support. They may nonetheless get told to. Potentially the school could use trainees/parent volunteers/national tutoring programme employees to pick up some of the slack or have the child develop a relationship with the behaviour mentor if they have one (usually a second hat for a TA).
Money will have to come from the SEN budget and they just won't have it, so be prepared for a bumpy ride and having to continue to advocate for your child. But no pick ups unless the paperwork is there and formal exclusion recorded.

And for what it's worth, I am truly sorry. For your friend, for the child in question, for the child's peers, for the teachers, for the SENDCO: the whole system needs an overhaul. It is not fit for purpose.

Thank you @SequinsandStiIettos

I would happily endorse the electric chair tbh.

FFS! Wrong thread. 😂 Too many tabs open at once.

I think the parents have been trying to keep formal exclusion off his record so it's been useful to hear people here advising not to do that.

Lol @EightWheelGirl, possibly a tad harsh 😉

😳

I don't think any private assessments count..LA insist on doing their own.

Hi OP,

I'm confused about the GP refusing to refer to CAMHS or the local ASD pathway because the issues are too mild. They do not sound mild at all and indeed this child is at risk of exclusion they are so severe.

I would be requesting a meeting with an educational psychologist, LA funded to discuss an assessment of needs and support plan.

[quote Innocenta]@Patapouf So it's fine for other children to suffer violence? What about the impact on them?

What if the victims have additional needs? Would it count then?[/quote]
Give your head a wobble. What bearing does it have whether the other children in the class also have additional needs? How is that relevant and how would it make it more or less okay for them to be at risk?

If the school are doing absolutely everything they can and should be doing there should be no risk to other children. If the other children are at genuine risk I would expect the school to complete a proper risk assessment which includes evidence of what they are doing to mitigate that risk but it's seems in this case that the school prefer to frequently illegally exclude this little boy.

All children are entitled to an education no matter their level of difficulties, and I would hope that parents teach their children about differences and how others might need more help instead of pathetic pearl clutching about their precious Molly-Grace having to share a classroom with a child with additional needs.

Ultimately the parents need to pursue three separate strategies.

1. figuring out why his behaviour and reactions are more extreme than most other kids. Autism and ADHD are the usual suspects but not the only possibilities. For example DD has a different medical condition that also causes emotional volatility. Or he may be extra tired for some reason and maybe this is causing his short temper.

2. having a constructive conversation with school about things they could do which may help and don’t cost a lot. For example setting up a quiet corner in the playground, or letting him go to the library at playtimes. Does he eat well at lunch, if not maybe he could bring a packed lunch. Etc

3. finding a more constructive school.

Understandable as stigma attached but he will fall through the net otherwise. Even if he were to be permanently excluded from that primary, the local authority has a duty to provide suitable full-time alternative education from day 6.
Advice here.
www.ipsea.org.uk/if-you-do-not-have-an-ehc-plan
Re exclusions, no more than 45 fixed per year. Part-time timetables are not meant to be a long-term solution. Permanent exclusion you can appeal and ask for an SEN expert to be present. If there are other primaries you feel he might be better with, with a fresh start, you're looking at a managed move but that won't really help if he is still in urgent need of an EHCP (which can take years) and might not be worth the paper it's written on. Nonetheless, you still need to get in the system (because of waiting times, covid backlog etc)

Some posters here seem to be suggesting that children never hit or kick and this boy is some kind of devil for doing it. IME it is actually pretty common among small children who are still learning to control themselves. Demonising it doesn’t help.

I’m absolutely not suggesting that children never hit or kick, or that the behaviour should be demonised, but my experience is not the same as yours. It’s not at all ‘pretty common’ among children in Y2 to hit and kick each other, let alone a teacher. It’s not even common in reception. It’s behaviour that we’d expect to deal with occasionally, but not often.

He is a very fussy eater and being plain Hangry has been a contributing factor to previous blow ups. School are now letting him take a snack from home, which has been banned under covid rules. Other triggers are noise / chaos. Being told to stop something he's enjoying and do something else instead. Being told to go to the toilet.

Who ruled out ASC? Did he go to somewhere like Lorna Wing for assessment?

LAs refusing to consider private assessments are acting unlawfully and if parents appeal SENDIST will consider them. This is an article about it from another good resource.

@SequinsandStiIettos I'm not sure who did it. But he hasn't been anywhere or seen in person. It was done via video link. Is Lorna Wing good or bad?

Lorna Wing centres (Kent/Essex) have a good rep as does the Elizabeth Newson centre in Nottingham afaik.

www.autism.org.uk/what-we-do/diagnosticservices
www.autismeastmidlands.org.uk/enc-referrals/
www.pdasociety.org.uk/resources/independent-diagnostic-centres/

I feel for your friend. Those four triggers are universal but the noise signals sensory overload issues and the change of activity trigger resonates. I assume the school has used an egg timer/gong/verbal and visual reminder of how long the activity has left to aid transitions.
Social stories also help with changes and mood awareness.
www.theschoolrun.com/social-stories-explained
Time-out laminated card/ mood cards/access to calm room when escalating (or even a safe space like a teepee in the corner or reading beanbag). Behaviour has to be taught as do routines but when escalating, most atypical kids need a known escape route/item to self-soothe (fidget cubes etc) and safe space to decompress/express anxiety.