Social services removed children

[Luluhere]

Hi my children was removed from me 12 years ago
I’m now with a new partner would they be involved if I was to have another I’m 42 years old so lot more mature and changed my life all my children are over 18 now and support our decision to try for another baby

@BumpOnWheels I’m
Sorry you’ve been through this 😞

Its a lot cheaper for local authorities to have parents sign a section 20 than having to get a court order for removal

Even if OPs children were removed for no good reason and a miscarriage of justice occurred, I wouldn’t have a child at 41. Not necessarily due to age (although it would be much harder than being in your twenties or thirties), and the increased risk factors, but simply because OP sounds like she’s had a tough time and I think I’d probably try and enjoy my life without the upset and drama now rather than voluntarily throwing myself back into chaos for the sake of my mental health and future well being.

Obviously if the children were removed for a valid reason then I wouldn’t have another.

@PizzaCrust

Even if OPs children were removed for no good reason and a miscarriage of justice occurred, I wouldn’t have a child at 41. Not necessarily due to age (although it would be much harder than being in your twenties or thirties), and the increased risk factors, but simply because OP sounds like she’s had a tough time and I think I’d probably try and enjoy my life without the upset and drama now rather than voluntarily throwing myself back into chaos for the sake of my mental health and future well being.

Obviously if the children were removed for a valid reason then I wouldn’t have another.

I do agree with you but sadly few that good reason for removal or no reason for removal once you have this type of involvement having another baby after others removed will be huge amounts of stress and uncertainty and could result in more removals which obviously if the originals removals were wrong then it going to cause OP even more trauma 😞

We just don’t know the reasons but personally if I was me I would not go ahead because I simply couldn’t risk it happening
It’s a very sad and difficult situation

My children got removed due to neglect due to my depression as was running away from there dad who was abusive and due to this I couldn’t manage the house and discipline the children I was told I was too soft with them so had no control over them, I’m in a new relationship now for 2 years now he’s not known to social services

@Luluhere

My children got removed due to neglect due to my depression as was running away from there dad who was abusive and due to this I couldn’t manage the house and discipline the children I was told I was too soft with them so had no control over them, I’m in a new relationship now for 2 years now he’s not known to social services

Have you had therapy and completed parenting assessments? That may help and be seen as positive if you have x

[quote PottyTrainingissues]@BumpOnWheels I’m
Sorry you’ve been through this 😞

Its a lot cheaper for local authorities to have parents sign a section 20 than having to get a court order for removal[/quote]
There’s actually been a lot of training given on the legal implications of S.20 and so LAs should really not be using these except in specific appropriate circumstances (mostly with teenagers who need to be accommodated). See here www.communitycare.co.uk/2018/07/19/keeping-children-section-20-without-proceedings-long-periods-may-breach-law-supreme-court-says/

But as others have said, the Courts (not social workers) don’t remove children on a whim or without very strong evidence. LAs only come to court as a last resort as children coming into care costs a fortune and that’s the main focus of LA management. In fact, the threshold for child protection and public law proceedings is getting higher.

@Luluhere

My children got removed due to neglect due to my depression as was running away from there dad who was abusive and due to this I couldn’t manage the house and discipline the children I was told I was too soft with them so had no control over them, I’m in a new relationship now for 2 years now he’s not known to social services

Do you have any contact with them? Were there opportunities to get them back?

Just dont have another child op. Enjoy your relationship, you dont need a new child with each partner you have. You neglected your children to the point they were not safe in your care, if I'm honest you shouldn't be even thinking about having more.

They all adults now I had one bck at 16 and one bck at 17 urs old always had contact with them

[quote PottyTrainingissues]@TableFlowerss

Sadly not bollocks. Look up FII
Parents are accused. Parents who push for EHCP or inclusion for other things[/quote]
Stop spouting nonsense. What on earth does having children with SEN/EHCP have to do with it....

**There’s actually been a lot of training given on the legal implications of S.20 and so LAs should really not be using these except in specific appropriate circumstances (mostly with teenagers who need to be accommodated). See here www.communitycare.co.uk/2018/07/19/keeping-children-section-20-without-proceedings-long-periods-may-breach-law-supreme-court-says/

But as others have said, the Courts (not social workers) don’t remove children on a whim or without very strong evidence. LAs only come to court as a last resort as children coming into care costs a fortune and that’s the main focus of LA management. In fact, the threshold for child protection and public law proceedings is getting higher**

@TheCrowening

Completely agree with you.

Let’s not let the actual truth get in the way of a good scaremongering story though, like the one by the pp, suggesting that kids with SEN’s will be taken off their parents if they push for a EHCP. That’s insane for someone to suggest that

Be honest @PottyTrainingissues becuae this is too serious an issue not to be

Do you actually have any direct experience?
Do you work in this area?
Have you had a child removed?
An investigative journalist who has spent considerable time digging in to this issue?

Anything, anything! That means you are correct to talk with such authority. Or have you just read bits and pieces?

@TableFlowerss

Sadly it is often an issue for SEN parents (in the case of things like FII in relation to ‘future emotional harm’)
You only have to look at the guidance and training given. There are ‘red flag’ issues. A lot of those accused have been pushing for school support when they find themselves accused. The conditions most commonly ‘targeted’ are ASD (particularly with PDA and arfid) ME, EDS, allergies , feeding issues and failure to thrive.
Parents ask for help or present at hospital desperate and instead of help find themselves on the receiving end of accusations and that they are attention seeking
Parents will push for school support and the school will say the child is ‘fine in school’ when the child may be masking then they start to point the finger at the parents

This in turn takes resources and time away from children who really are at risk. I am absolutely aware that there are times when sadly ss need to intervene.

@PottyTrainingissues

Can you give us an idea of the experience you have in this area professionally? Nothing specific to an area etc obviously but what kind of job you work in to have knowledge of the system?

[quote PottyTrainingissues]@TableFlowerss

Sadly it is often an issue for SEN parents (in the case of things like FII in relation to ‘future emotional harm’)
You only have to look at the guidance and training given. There are ‘red flag’ issues. A lot of those accused have been pushing for school support when they find themselves accused. The conditions most commonly ‘targeted’ are ASD (particularly with PDA and arfid) ME, EDS, allergies , feeding issues and failure to thrive.
Parents ask for help or present at hospital desperate and instead of help find themselves on the receiving end of accusations and that they are attention seeking
Parents will push for school support and the school will say the child is ‘fine in school’ when the child may be masking then they start to point the finger at the parents

This in turn takes resources and time away from children who really are at risk. I am absolutely aware that there are times when sadly ss need to intervene.[/quote]
What does - Fll, PDA, arfid, EDS even mean? They aren’t familiar terms that the average person would know.

Not really sure what your purpose is tbh, because you’re posts are potentially frighten a lot of parents for no reason what so ever.....

Sadly now ss can remove children on very little basis

This is absolute total nonsense on every level.

SS don't remove dc, the courts do for starters. The police have emergency powers of removal but social services don't.

It is expensive and time consuming for ss to request remove dc from a family home.
To do this permanently involves assessments of parents by relevant court appointed professionals.
Parents have their own government funded legal representation.
The dc have theirs and finally ss have theirs.

There is a clear legal threshold for removal and it is high, it is even higher for permanent removal.

No system will ever be perfect, it would be daft to suggest this but this kind of nonsense shouldn't be left unchallenged.

@Egghead81

Be honest *@PottyTrainingissues* becuae this is too serious an issue not to be

Do you actually have any direct experience?
Do you work in this area?
Have you had a child removed?
An investigative journalist who has spent considerable time digging in to this issue?

Anything, anything! That means you are correct to talk with such authority. Or have you just read bits and pieces?

I am a parent of dc with SEN. I am active within some local groups and have many good friends with SEN dc/ medically unwell dc. Sadly what I have detailed here is happening and seems to be too high an incidence for such a small set of the population. I can’t obviously go into individual cases but it is an issue and predominantly for parents seeking extensive support for their dc

FII -fabricated induced illness (new term for munchausens by proxy)

ASD autistic spectrum disorder

PDA pathological demand avoidance

Arfid a food intake disorder associated with ASD

EDS Ehlers danlos syndrome

It’s as OP had not said what had happened till late in the thread I did perhaps wonder was this the issue. It’s something to be aware of and does need highlighting sadly

It’s perhaps not relevant to the OP but as it’s being discussed and questions asked there’s a lot of info on the ‘not fine in school’ website and the ‘fiightback’ website
You can also look up the guidance for FII and future emotional harm (rcpch)

@PottyTrainingissues I have worked in various schools over almost 20 years and have not known a single child to be removed from their parents due to medical needs/SEN.

I have however, spent considerable time on the EDS Facebook groups/forums before eventually having to step away due to the competitive 'my child is suffering more than yours' nature of a few posters who seemed to form an entire identity around their child's medical needs. It did actually make me feel uncomfortable at times, especially the posting of endless photos and disclosure of confidential medical information. I wouldn't be surprised if a few of those parents did have some issues of their own to be honest.

So heresay

No, not hearsay but it’s up to each individual what they believe. It’s just something that I think needs to be talked about

[quote HamCob]@PottyTrainingissues I have worked in various schools over almost 20 years and have not known a single child to be removed from their parents due to medical needs/SEN.

I have however, spent considerable time on the EDS Facebook groups/forums before eventually having to step away due to the competitive 'my child is suffering more than yours' nature of a few posters who seemed to form an entire identity around their child's medical needs. It did actually make me feel uncomfortable at times, especially the posting of endless photos and disclosure of confidential medical information. I wouldn't be surprised if a few of those parents did have some issues of their own to be honest.[/quote]
Those EDS groups are something else. I have EDS myself and is quite severe (sometimes I need a wheelchair) and dear god I had to leave those groups too. It’s like being in a constant competition. I have other chronic illnesses and none of the other Facebook groups I frequent are anything like the EDS ones, which is quite sad as it really can be quite a debilitating illness.

Sorry to hear that you suffer with your EDS @DangerNature.
It's such a shame that the online EDS community is so odd at times because it's often difficult to get clear information from healthcare professionals. Some don't always seem to be well informed. Hopefully that is changing now though ...anyway that's a thread in itself!