Teacher grab

[hibijibi15]

Hello, just wondering, does anyone know whether a primary school teacher is allowed to grab a child to stop him from running if he won't listen?

I keep coming across in the wrong way because I'm not concentrating because I'm doing loads of other stuff at the same time.

I shouldn't have posted, I feel much worse now

There are other parents whose children I am sure she just would not dare to grab.

I'm sure she would, if they were displaying behaviour similar to your ds. It sounds like he may have reacted as he did to her intervention because he's not used to being stopped in his tracks when misbehaving. Is that something you would find difficult to do, op?

@MintyMabel

I’m always amazed when perfectly behaved children at home become really badly behaved at school. Isn’t most people’s experience that this is the other way round?

Yes and no to this one.

I think it depends on tolerance levels and the environment.

In some situations, the behaviours are manageable at home if there are only two of them and they have the means to let off some steam. Some parents, for instance, have very high levels of tolerance for noisiness and boisterousness. In a home environment, it isn't always a problem.

Put that into a school environment where learning needs to take place and there are lots of other children trying to concentrate and the boundaries are different. If they aren't able to switch between what is acceptable at home and what is expected in school it can be a major challenge.

But I think here, OP is admitting that they don't listen at home either and that she is struggling too. This isn't really just a school issue at all.

Various things at play.

But yes anyone working in a school can use reasonable force under the law.

I would put in writing to the school the following because what they are doing and saying is contradictory.

Dear HT/teacher

Thankyou for your discussion on x date at x time where you informed me you needed to grab x by the x because he was doing x.

I understand using reasonable force is within the dfe guidance for use of reasonable force in schools.

However, what I don't understand is the conflicting information you have given. You are fully aware that I am finding it extremely difficult to get x and x to listen at home and both me and childminder feel it's outsized the normal development.

You have communicated to me that you don't agree with this and their behaviour is within the normal boundary's.

Therefore my question is - if x behaviour is within normal boundaries why was it necessary to use the final resort of physical intervention to support his behaviour?

Please respond within 5 working days in writing.

Regards

Don't add anything more. Let them come to you. You aren't accusing them of doing anything wrong and it's likely teacher wasn't as she was very open with you. But what you will have is written evidence to support you.

What consequences do you put in place when they don't listen? If nothing happens (or nothing that they particularly care about) when they don't listen, then they have no reason to do so!

@hibijibi15

I shouldn't have posted, I feel much worse now

I think this thread has just gone the wrong way due to the focus on the teacher Let that go, it's not relevant.

Have you ever read a book called "How to talk so kids will listen"?

I'd ask the school about parenting courses, lots of them are still running over zoom. If you have a local children's centre they would know too.

@MintyMabel

I’m always amazed when perfectly behaved children at home become really badly behaved at school. Isn’t most people’s experience that this is the other way round?

Very common for children with additional needs to behave very differently at home and school - firstly because a school environment is much more stressful, and secondly because parents are usually more skilled/experienced in managing their child's needs.

There are loads of really helpul responses thanks so much.
I'm working my way through!
I know everything is meant in the best way possible.
Itsgettingweird you seem to have been able to formulate what is griping me which is amazing and a massive relief. Thankyou for understanding and not judging or making assumptions

After the first page I’ve only read your replies. The youngest will still be under the HV so you can contact them for support. I would ask if they can refer you to a parenting course the Sohuill parenting course is often used and can be done online.

Please don’t sent itsgettimgweirds email. It’s a silly attempt to trick. The teacher will simply answer because sometimes kids are naughty and don’t listen, it’s totally normal.

It seems we are not the first to say the issue may lie with yourself. You’ve been told by so many professionals now your children are normal. Yet you still cling to the one response which basically fundamentally agrees its them and not you.

This is only going to get worse if you keep trying to say something is wrong with your children. And one day there will be if you keep dragging them round people saying there is.

Speak to your doctor, do a parenting course, seek counselling. Stop trying to blame the kids for being kids.

[quote hibijibi15]There are loads of really helpul responses thanks so much.
I'm working my way through!
I know everything is meant in the best way possible.
Itsgettingweird you seem to have been able to formulate what is griping me which is amazing and a massive relief. Thankyou for understanding and not judging or making assumptions

Please don’t sent itsgettimgweirds email. It’s a silly attempt to trick. The teacher will simply answer because sometimes kids are naughty and don’t listen, it’s totally normal.

Except they are not allowed to use force over normal behaviour. You can't use force for compliance. So either the behaviour was over the realms of normality and dangerous (can use force by law) or they were behaving normally. (Cannot use force)

I am both a parent of a disabled child and also work in a role training and advising on use of reasonable force at a high level.

So my knowledge and email is totally legitimate based on my role related to the dfe guidance.

When the children don’t listen to you, do they face any consequences-time out etc?

People, please stop lynching me for attacking the teacher! What are you reading into things? Stop making assumptions FFS I haven't done anything wrong to the flipping teacher. When I was trying to sleep, I was wondering whether it was all ok. I asked on here if it is normal. STOP IT.
I can not believe how nasty and judgemental some people are being I really can't. I asked if it was allowed because I didn't know.

OP, it sounds like you are really stressed and struggling. I don't think anyone here is having a go at you, people are trying to help. You sound quite overwhelmed by everything right now. Is it worth speaking to your GP, maybe? I feel that you're seeing criticism on this thread that really isn't there.

Take care.

It sounds like maybe they're acting up at school a bit because it's safe to do so?

They've had a helluva lot of upheaval recently and that has to go somewhere inside kids heads and bodies for them to process their feelings and fears.

They may not act out at home because you've been poorly, they're sensitive bro it, and school may be where those emotions come out.

Talk to school. Ask them exactly what happened. Explain you're struggling with them too, and ask for help. There may be counselling, referral to parenting courses and all sorts they can help with.

Schools and parents working together can achieve a good outcome for you all.

You just have to remember that you're actually both on the same side: you want the kids to do well and be happy.

@hibijibi15

People, please stop lynching me for attacking the teacher! What are you reading into things? Stop making assumptions FFS I haven't done anything wrong to the flipping teacher. When I was trying to sleep, I was wondering whether it was all ok. I asked on here if it is normal. STOP IT. I can not believe how nasty and judgemental some people are being I really can't. I asked if it was allowed because I didn't know.

Please don't get upset. MN has a weird hive mind on threads where teachers are involved. And another day you'd have had a load of replies equally stating an untruth that teachers are never allowed to touch children.

I work in education.

I train school staff in behaviour using the use of reasonable force guidance from dfe.

I have a disabled child.

It's perfectly reasonable to question why they say your child's behaviour is normal and yet also say it's so dangerous they needed to use force. Neither can be true whilst the other is correct.

You have a right to any paperwork (which there should be as you've been informed of use of restrictive physical intervention) and also they should have a plan in place to prevent the need to use force again.

I'm absolutely for the use of test tube physical intervention where it is required. My training includes this but mostly focussed on reasons for behaviour and how to prevent use of force.

I'm absolutely against those who say teachers should never touch a child because that's a safeguarding issue.

But I'm also a huge advocate for only using force where necessary and if it's used recognising that the situation needs addressing.

You ce been thru tough times
Dc nay be picking up on stress or feerling stressed as dad not around or they getting used to separation
Ask to meet with school and discuss behaviour at home and school , what strategies do they use and what support is there?

@hibijibi15

Ohalrightthen you sound really arsey. WHAT DID YOU EXPECT haha I was just asking for some perspective and didn't specify my expectations. I have been trying to explain to this teacher that he is a handful and won't listen, for the last year. Last year she wouldn't help me at all, every morning her attention went to the same mother whos son is fine, a mother with a huge family and all the help she could need. A month after having some lung removed and then chemotherapy I then split up with their father last summer, who now refuses to see them, two really lively boys, really stressed every morning getting them to school because they won't listen, and she was just making out they wouldn't listen because I was stressed for no reason. Now she is seeing that even if you are fully equipped, they won't listen. Everyone all this time has been telling me they are perfectly normal. I don't find it normal that they are incapable of listening. It is very very difficult. I know poeple will say that it is normal for kids not to listen. Other people will say it is not normal. I desperately need help to get them to listen to me but I don't know how to address it.

You sound really stressed. Do You have any RL help? Teachers shouldn't really manhandle kids but sometimes they need to grab them to address the situation the child was in. Get the teacher on your side then they will help you deal with your child Good luck

Op is there any way to get help? Maybe a call to your gp is the answer. I think it’s important you try to get help for you and stop trying to get it for the children, as it is unlikely they are the ones who need it

💐

I have looked for help for myself too, being fully aware that I am understandably stressed. Honestly there seems to be a problem with the word normal here as in 'Doctor please help,I am really stressed' and they will reply 'that's perfectly understandable'. So then you're left there, where do I go from here! Two doctors, and a psychiatrist for good measure. Thought the psychiatrist would help, he told me I was fine, the kids are fine, normal to be stressed. I also visit a therapist twice a month and although it's good to talk, it doesn't get the kids staying still enough to get dressed without doing four laps around the house.

I am not in the UK this is why they are still in school.
But they are not acting up in school, it was one incident where my youngest shouted because the teacher grabbed him. There were two of them running around.

What sort of discipline/consequences do you use OP? If you explain that, posters might have suggestions for how you can get your boys to listen to you.

100% in order to keep people safe. If a child is running away from the class and it would be unsafe to do so a teacher can physically stop the child doing so. If a teacher felt the need to grab your son I'd have serious questions about your son's behaviour in school.

It's also not 'normal' for your son to shout at a teacher for doing that. Most children would be embarrassed.