Should nurseries and primary schools move outside to halt the spread of Covid?

[Iwantalonglie]

Some individual nurseries have been massively increasing the amount of time their children spend outside to reduce the Covid risk to staff and children.

I'm curious as to what people think of this. Should more nurseries move outside entirely? It might be difficult for secondary schools, but should primary schools try to move some classes into the playground to allow more social distancing in the school building? Or would this be impractical for most nurseries/schools?

It depends on the size of your playground. We have a tiny Victorian concrete area for 210 children. We already have to use it in shifts.

Depends where you are and what the weather is like. It would be to cold where we are and rain would be a constant disruption.

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Have you been outside recently? It’s fucking freezing. Absolutely no chance I would pay £70 a day for my 2 year old to be out in 1 degree from 8am - 5pm

It’s freezing out there! You’d have children crying by the time you’d finished the register!

It’s freezing at the moment. Totally impractical.

It's been below freezing and the ground covered in snow here for the last 4 days...not really practical it it?

My son went to an almost entirely outdoor nursery, it was fantastic.

I would be more than happy for him to have outdoor lessons at primary school, but most primary schools have limited outdoor space and don’t have the funds needed to buy the outdoor equipment they would require.

My kids nursery has been doing lots more outside and have had no cases or burst bubbles despite us being in an area with high cases and restrictions since September. They have put up some tauplain so even in very wet weather they can get outside. My DS loves it but my DD is less keen and has also got really bad chillblains which dont seem to get better.

We are lucky with our nursery it has lots and I mean lots of outside space however they won’t let little ones just freeze and get soaked outside all day.

Well the weather isn't the main issue seeing Sweden and even Scotland have plenty of outdoor nurseries/forest pre schools but most regular settings have a very limited outdoor area, not enough to keep dc engaged and moving and many parents wouldn't suddenly be able to buy appropriate outdoor clothing at a moments notice, nor would nurseries be in a position to provide them

I had children crying in my classroom just before Christmas because it was so cold with all of the doors and windows open. Teaching outside at this time of year would be ludicrous.

Never mind the logistics of it all when you have different books for each subject, a range of different resources needed for each lesson and technology that features quite heavily in the teaching input.

Then what do you do if it rains heavily? Or starts snowing? Or blowing a gale and the children can't keep their work in one place?

@Timeturnerplease. Yes, it's going to be a lot easier for suburban and rural schools with more space. Though the primaries round us have fair-sized concrete playgrounds - you could definitely teach 3-4 classes outside in them.

There's two options for rain - either rig up some cover or plan lessons where it doesn't matter if the children get wet. For example, "writing" in mud or with chalks on a fence.

Some lessons - maths (measuring rain?), art (making 'natural' pictures)? - might be easier to do outside than others.

Kids would have to be dressed properly in warm clothes and waterproofs. Which not all parents would necessarily be able to afford. So that would be a barrier.

What planet are you on? It’s middle of Winter, my car thermometer currently says it’s -5, yet you want me as a Primary teacher to move my classroom outside? The lengths some parents want schools to go to is unbelievable 🤬🤬🤬

I had children crying in my classroom just before Christmas because it was so cold with all of the doors and windows open. Teaching outside at this time of year would be ludicrous.

It's not comparable though to have dc sitting at a desk in the cold to being outside, moving and engaged in outdoor learning but that's a whole other skill set for teachers and inappropriate for the reasons I already gave above in most cases.

I agree conventional lessons wouldn't work outside - so it might make sense to have a mix of indoor/outdoor lessons.

Why is cold necessarily a barrier? If children are dressed warmly and properly and the lesson plan structured so they keep moving?

Outside my front door there is 3 inches of snow. And even the main roads aren't clear from the cars yet. I'm in a bit up area too, not rural.

Whilst my kids would enjoy being outside in it, and have the appropriate clothing, they wouldn't be able to concentrate when there is such fun snow all around them. It would be (to my kids anyway) like teaching in a ball pit. Too fun to concentrate.

you want me as a Primary teacher to move my classroom outside

Not really. There would be no "moving classrooms outside". Instead, schools/nurseries would think about how to deliver aspects of the curriculum to children being encouraged to move actively around the playground.

I'm not sure 'writing in mud' is the Ofsted approved gold standard of KS1 .

But yeah, some settings eg forest schools do lots of outdoor stuff. BUT they already have the equipment, children wearing suitable clothing & staff skill sets.

Bit tricky for Bash St Juniors to suddenly implement when their only outdoor space is smaller than most people's garden, & they've got 300 pupils...

DD3's nursery already spend most of their day outside anyway, they're really lucky to have a decent amount of outside space that they've done a lot of work on portioning off for each of the rooms pre-covid. They're out in all weathers, we keep a set of waterproofs hats and gloves there all year.

I wish the older ones primary school would do more outside. In general, not just because of covid. I think it's good for them to spend more time in the fresh air. DD1's Y6 class has done a bit tbf - they did orienteering round the school grounds one day, and I saw her class on the playground doing one of their lessons (recording themselves reading a story they'd written, I guess it was easier to record where they could spread out, harder to do indoors where they're on top of each other!)

Wish DS's Y1 class could work out more ways to do outdoor learning though.

You’ve already mentioned it but no way could I afford to buy clothes to keep my children warm and dry all day outside. They have clothes suitable for a walk for a couple of hours but that’s it. Plus I wouldn’t be able to wash and dry them quickly enough as I need to go to the launderette to get clothes dry. Plus then they would need new waterproof shoes. All this after spending a fortune on school specified appropriate shoes in September and god knows how much on uniform. And who would pay for all the clothing etc for the teachers?

There are many outdoor nurseries in Norway and Denmark where children spend almost the entire day outdoors, and the indoor area is often something like a barn. It's hugely beneficial to children to spend time outdoors also, and many children who struggle to focus in a classroom can settle better learning outdoors.

We may not be planned or resourced to do everything outside, and of course some schools lack the space. But it's a lot colder there than here, is there a reason that British kids are so much more fragile?

@midnightstar66. I agree that the reasons you have listed are the main obstacles:

1. Limited outdoor area.

2. Insufficient resources to provide outdoor kit for children where parents are unable to provide it.

There is also a "mindset" issue from parents and teachers - that important learning happens in an indoor classroom.

Main problems are that many schools don’t have the outside space (and those that do have probably been using it as much as possible) and people don’t have the correct clothing and many won’t be able to afford it.

If you have chosen to send your child to an outdoor type nursery etc then I assume you have factored in the cost of warm clothing.

We can’t compare ourselves to places like Sweden where they will already have the set up for outdoor education.

OP primary teachers don’t make up random lessons on the day there is a curriculum to follow and objectives to be achieved.
I’m sure more outdoor education is a good thing for nurseries but not practical for older pupils.
I really despair at times at the lack of understanding of the fact that teachers carefully prepare according to pupil need not make up random crap based around the weather!