Should nurseries and primary schools move outside to halt the spread of Covid?

[Iwantalonglie]

Some individual nurseries have been massively increasing the amount of time their children spend outside to reduce the Covid risk to staff and children.

I'm curious as to what people think of this. Should more nurseries move outside entirely? It might be difficult for secondary schools, but should primary schools try to move some classes into the playground to allow more social distancing in the school building? Or would this be impractical for most nurseries/schools?

@SallyLovesCheese. That's what I think I mean... Some schools have large grounds but the ethos is lacking. Others are much more limited in space but make the most of what they have. Often a small space forces you to be more creative.

I think parents are the same though...we have a tiny courtyard garden (London area) but I try to leave the kitchen door open for part of the morning (even if it's raining) so DC can be out there in a puddlesuit playing in the sandbox or with containers of water and outdoor chalks. We have plenty of friends who are the same... one friend has a small balcony with a Wendy house and some planters that her DC have constant access to whenever she can supervise them out there. Whereas other friends with huge gardens (well, compared to ours) don't seem to use them much after September.

It would be nice if all schools tried to use the resources they have to their best ability to promote outdoor learning, but I think many don't view it as being that important.

I think parents are the same though...we have a tiny courtyard garden (London area) but I try to leave the kitchen door open for part of the morning (even if it's raining) so DC can be out there in a puddlesuit playing in the sandbox or with containers of water and outdoor chalks. We have plenty of friends who are the same... one friend has a small balcony with a Wendy house and some planters that her DC have constant access to whenever she can supervise them out there.

So you only "try" to leave the door open so that your DC can be outside for "part of the morning"? That's not the same as expecting a child to be outside all day.

And your friend's DC clearly doesn't have "constant access" to outdoors if outdoor play can only happen when your friend is able to supervise.

@ZipLips. Well no, they don't leave their young children with free, unsupervised access to a second floor balcony.

[quote Iwantalonglie]@ZipLips. Well no, they don't leave their young children with free, unsupervised access to a second floor balcony.[/quote]
Perhaps they should have a change of mindset...

Theres a lot of people talking from priviledge on this thread

@StanfordPines. They try their best given the resources they have.

Lots of us living in urban environments don't have the luxury of huge safe gardens for our children to explore. In the first lockdown when nurseries were shut and I was trying to work from home,
my DC spent much of their time confined to our 4mx3m yard. They were lucky to have that compared with their friends round here. That's one of the reasons why we're so keen on schools and nurseries doing their bit to provide outdoor learning.

Schools should have children outside more than they do anyway. They spend too much time inside and too many playgrounds are all concrete and it’s not good enough.

Where it’s practical and where the children have the right clothing - yes, they should be outside as much as possible. It being cold isn’t a reason not to be outside. It’s mad to me that this isn’t just the norm already.

@yankeedoodledandee

Yes, Of course I was furious. I take it you’d be happy with your 6 year old being singled out and kept behind from an activity they enjoyed, whilst the rest of the class continued without them? Dc isn’t hugely behind but they struggle with the school environment at the best of times. They’ll have plenty of time to catch up with numeracy. I value their physical and mental health far more than meeting some arbitrary educational milestone.

Funnily enough, the new school seems far more willing to support dc’s learning and let them join in with P.E. They even managed to do a nativity and upload it online for parents to view, whilst the other school has stopped all non educational activities due to covid.

Our village primary just doesn't have the outside space (its currently used in shifts) and seeing everyone outside sledging today, I suspect many don't have the right clothes.
It's fine if you have space and everyone has access to the right clothes and shoes but that's not going to be the case for large swathes if the U.K.
We have cupboards of ski clothes & warm waterproofs in our house but it would be incredibly naive (and middle class) to assume everyone else has them and can afford to provide them at the drop of a hat or if at all.

No, I fucking hate the cold and did as I child

I take it you’d be happy

Meh. Don't 'take it' anything. I never relayed me feelings on that matter. I'm just a bit bemused that it left you furious, that's all.

Those saying it really isn't expensive to kit your child out for being outside in winter: have you ever actually worked in a primary school with the constant battle with a significant number of parents who send their kids in day after day with inappropriate coats and footwear? It's not always even about cost, it's about their priorities. The previous poster who said they see kids in the park dressed appropriately, and that most have waterproof trousers- they are the ones with parents who bother to take them to the park when the weather isn't great. They are not the children we worry about.

You worry about children whose parents don't take them to the park in the rain?

@Thatsnotmynamename or with the older dc you can provide all ski wear and winter boots in the world but you can't make them wear it, dd will only wear shorts (no tights) and I've given up telling her to take her coat. She has ones suitable for every weather and every activity but even today while sledging she was in a hoodie

@WunWun. It rains most of the winter in this country. Young children still need to get out to run around and exercise.

They do need to get outside and be active. But it needs a massive culture shift and change of mindset.

I took my class out in light drizzle last term to make sure they got some fresh air and a run around. Parents complained and I got a ticking off from SLT. I regularly get notes in diaries telling my that little Johnny won't be doing PE because it is cold.

In my LA almost all school nurseries have canopies so the children can still go outside in the rain.

@Pinkflipflop85. Yes, it's not all those awful teachers' faults ! Parents who complain at the first whinge from their kids are part of the issue. To be fair to the kids though, they're probably the ones sent to school in inappropriate clothing for the weather.

Possibly if they suspend school uniform and parents can afford appropriate clothing. DD and I were outside from lunchtime until it went dark, so about four hours. Full school day could be pushing it though...

@BounceyBumblebee

Children would all need to be provided with the appropriate clothing - that would be hiking/ski gear type stuff. That would be expensive and many families wouldn't be able to afford it.

This wouldn't work for all children. SN kids or children with health conditions may not be able to stay in the cold all day.
And before anyone says is, you can have a health condition and not be vulnerable to covid or be shielding. The bar for shielding a child is extremely high.

For a healthy NT child with the right clothes it would probably be OK except nap time.

Again, what do all these people think happens in other countries? Yes, a small number of children will need more support with extras provided. But that is truly not the majority. It happens to often on Mumsnet, we can't all live around the lowest common denominator. I'm medically unable to drive, and it does sadly limit my children somewhat in their extracurriculars. It doesn't make me think that extracurriculars should be banned because some parents can't drive, instead it's about finding ways to help all children enjoy the benefit.

Fwiw there is also totally decent outdoor kit.from aldi, and this year my DD was fully kitted out for winter second hand via eBay and the local.charity shop, including Boden, gap and decent warm brands, for under £20.

I think some schools are doing this but it clearly wouldn’t be the same everywhere. My daughter’s school is lucky to have grounds. They have to have wellies and the school provides waterproofs to every child in infants. I’m not as sure about the older children but I think they still do forest school too. She went to a fully outdoor forest school for a pre-school term and it was wonderful, proper Enid blyton-esque but I wouldn’t have fancied it in winter. From 2 her nursery did forest school once a week and it was her favourite thing. I agree with the OP that more outside time is beneficial. I think in particular, it worked well for the boys in her cohort.