Should nurseries and primary schools move outside to halt the spread of Covid?

[Iwantalonglie]

Some individual nurseries have been massively increasing the amount of time their children spend outside to reduce the Covid risk to staff and children.

I'm curious as to what people think of this. Should more nurseries move outside entirely? It might be difficult for secondary schools, but should primary schools try to move some classes into the playground to allow more social distancing in the school building? Or would this be impractical for most nurseries/schools?

@Iwantalonglie

Don't use covid as an excuse for being unhappy with how your school teaches.

No idea what you mean? My DC aren't even at school yet.

That explains it.

My DC aren't even at school yet.

So you haven't got first hand experience of your local schools, or those in the area you might move to, but you're posting comments such as Especially compared to our local concrete jungle primary schools which drill children to the test.

Perhaps you need to look into the schools in your area, because they're not all the same and many will have elements of outdoor learning and even forest school provision.

Sorry if I'm being obtuse but I don't understand your point. Why do we recognise that children aged 3 have different learning styles (and some prefer to be outside) but we don't recognise that this also applies to children aged 4 who are expected to learn in the same way.

Primary school covers more than 4 year olds. That's the whole point.

They manage in forest schools in Scandinavian countries.

I’m sure they do but these aren’t forest schools that parents have chosen to send their children to which are set up for this kind of learning in a country used to cold weather.
You are comparing apples and oranges.
Children in African countries are used to walking 2 hours to school every day without shoes and toilets that are no more than a hole in the ground. Doesn’t mean that we would expect or accept that for our children.

@yankeedoodledandee. So, because my children aren't in school yet, I'm not entitled to an opinion on what sort of education I'd like them to have? So patronising.

I also worked in a deprived school where children lacked warm clothing but we always had a stock of clothing (usually stuff teachers' children had outgrown) to lend them.

@Iwantalonglie

Don't use covid as an excuse for being unhappy with how your school teaches.

No idea what you mean? My DC aren't even at school yet.

So what is your qualification in this topic? You went to school yourself?

Why are all the offices shut? Why can’t everyone just move their desks into the car park?

You seem really upset about something @yankeedoodledandee.

I'm not upset.

Sorry if I've hit a nerve.

You haven't

All I'm really doing is asking (i) whether children spending more time learning outside could help prevent Covid tranmission, and (ii) (which this thread has naturally evolved into) whether more outdoor learning would be a good thing in general.

This is something about which people are allowed to have different views - do you want me to apologise for having a different view from you?

Haha. You are accusing me of being upset and saying you have hit a nerve because I have offered a different view, but you are suggesting I don't think people can have a different view?

You are being ridiculous. I don't agree with you. I have a different view. That's ok. I'm voicing that view. That's also ok.

It's quite interesting that you don't have w child in primary school yet you are suggesting mine freezes her fucking toes off daily 'to help covid'

Your view is different, it's also pish.

So, because my children aren't in school yet, I'm not entitled to an opinion on what sort of education I'd like them to have? So patronising.

You can have every opinion on what kind of education you want YOUR children to have. Just don't pop along and try to use covid to justify it.

@AaronPurr. I'm afraid our local primary schools are concrete jungles (maybe you are more fortunate?). The two nearest to us have very limited outdoor space and I've heard parents complain about the pressure their children are put under. It is in fact doing the research for schools for our DC which has made me question whether this is what I want for them.

You can have every opinion on what kind of education you want YOUR children to have. Just don't pop along and try to use covid to justify it.

That was my first question. The discussion on this thread has EVOLVED. Or is evolution too complicated a concept for you?

To be fair my DS' primary (large 3 form entry in Cardiff) had no cases at all until the very last week of term when two children in separate years tested positive. It does sound like DS spends an awful lot of his time outside, what with play times etc, plus forest school, PE, even their recorded Christmas "show" was outside.

Perhaps they're on to something?

That was my first question. The discussion on this thread has EVOLVED. Or is evolution too complicated a concept for you?

Yes, that's it. You got me. Well done OP. Your superior knowledge is shining bright.

Children would all need to be provided with the appropriate clothing - that would be hiking/ski gear type stuff. That would be expensive and many families wouldn't be able to afford it.

This comes up time and again on here, and it really isn’t true. It really isn’t that expensive if you shop in supermarkets, H&M and secondhand. You don’t need a North Face coat and Burton ski pants. It’s a question of prioritising decent, warm waterproof clothing over useless fashion items.

Have just double-checked, and you can get a pack of three pairs of magic gloves for £4, or if your child feels the cold, proper Thinsulate ski gloves from £5 (Sainsbury’s). Fleece-lined hat with ear flaps from H&M for £4. DS’s waterproof trousers came form H&M and were £9, or Mountain Warehouse have some for £13. I am assuming most kids have a coat and wellies already, but if not wellies are about £10 from any supermarket, and a good waterproof coat (H&M or M&S) is about £30. So if buying all new, £60, which the majority of two-income households could probably afford, assuming you get two year’s wear out of most of that and would have been buying a coat and wellies anyway.

If you are buying secondhand, there are Jojo waterproof salopettes on FB for £3, and good, branded waterproof coats for £8. Wellies from £2. So you could get everything you need for under £20. Again, the vast majority of families can afford that, and would have budgeted for a coat and wellies regardless. There are children who don’t own a coat, but I live in a very deprived area myself and the vast majority of primary kids do in fact have coats on in a morning.

The school should definitely have a stock of spares for those who don’t have them, but most families in work should be able to find £20 every couple of years.

It's quite interesting that you don't have w child in primary school yet you are suggesting mine freezes her fucking toes off daily 'to help covid'

My DC at nursery spend hours outside everyday. They cope. Maybe it should be an option available to parents and they can choose what they think is best (and healthiest) for their children.

Children in Scandinavian countries will have warm clothing as part of their normal wardrobe, they won’t need special clothes for school.

And if you live somewhere like London the winter weather is usually more temperate than other places in the UK.

@Iwantalonglie

It's quite interesting that you don't have w child in primary school yet you are suggesting mine freezes her fucking toes off daily 'to help covid'

My DC at nursery spend hours outside everyday. They cope. Maybe it should be an option available to parents and they can choose what they think is best (and healthiest) for their children.

Nursery children are running around and being active all day. They also, usually, have the option of being inside.

Nursery and year 6 are not the same.

Yes, that's it. You got me. Well done OP. Your superior knowledge is shining bright.

If you want to trade in insults rather than exchange reasoned points of views, please go find another thread. I've tried to consider and respond to your arguments but you haven't shown me the same courtesy.

My DC at nursery spend hours outside everyday. They cope. Maybe it should be an option available to parents and they can choose what they think is best (and healthiest) for their children

Nursery children are not the same as primary 7 children.

Nursery children are not the same as primary 7 children.

No, but reception and year 1 children have more in common with nursery children than P7s.

If you want to trade in insults

?

No, but reception and year 1 children have more in common with nursery children than P7s.

What is the point? Primary school is more than those 2 years.

@ineedaholidaynow

Children in Scandinavian countries will have warm clothing as part of their normal wardrobe, they won’t need special clothes for school.

And if you live somewhere like London the winter weather is usually more temperate than other places in the UK.

Most London children will have a coat, hat, gloves and wellies as part of their normal clothes. I don’t know any kids who don’t, and I live in a pretty deprived area of Lambeth. Most primary kids have waterproof trousers too, judging by the playgrounds, and if they don’t they are £3 on FB Marketplace.

No, but reception and year 1 children have more in common with nursery children than P7s.

I agree, but many of those in reception and yr1 will already be spending a lot of time learning outdoors. Free flow environments and access to forest school are common place for those year groups.

What is the point? Primary school is more than those 2 years.

The point is that an outdoor education might have more value for younger children, whereas older children need to spend more time indoors for the curriculum to be delivered effectively.

It seems a shame for children to go from being able to spend the majority of their time outdoors at age 3/4 to being stuck in a classroom at age 4/5.