*trigger warning sexual harm* totally posting for traffic feeling desperate

[QuestionableDanceMoves]

My 6 year old daughter told me this evening that her 12 year old brother, my son, put his penis in her mouth this afternoon.
Initially he denied it, then said he’d only said it to her as a joke and hadn’t done anything but eventually confessed it was the truth and he had done it
He says he doesn’t know why, they both said it’s never happened before, he said he knew it was wrong to do it but did it anyway.
Their father, my exh, was emotionally and physically abusive towards me when we were together, we’ve been apart for 4 years now, which my son witnessed. He had some counselling in the initial aftermath of his father leaving but has always struggled with his emotions and anger and often says he feels out of control.

I don’t know what to do. I told my daughter she did the absolute right thing by telling me. There’s only me and the 2 kids, I have no one else. I don’t want his life to be ruined but I know this behaviour can’t go unchecked, he needs help
How do I get it for him? What do I do? I can’t believe he’s done this

Well done @QuestionableDanceMoves, you've done an amazing job.

Try and rest tonight, you need to sleep

You sound like a lovely mum OP. I hope you have a more restful night tonight

What a wonderful Mum you are OP, well done on being empathic and practical too. Can’t imagine how tough this is for you, for you all.

Well done, OP! You sound like a great mum who is doing your very, very best under extremely difficult circumstances!!! As I said before, I’m really proud of you for jumping straight in to get help for your kids!

Op
Did you get any contact details from the police or social services?

Or any incident number?

Yku could do with a referral for yourself and dd to victim support.

He has apologised to his sister, he says he feels ashamed and unlovable- I asked him to describe himself to me and he said stupid, annoying and horrible.

This might sound nasty but his words come across as manipulative. Like he’s playing the sympathy card? It’s not beyond the realm of possibility, he did initially lie about his version of events to present himself in a better light.

It’s normal for 12 year olds to be curious about sex, not normal for them to “experiment” with siblings or young children. It’s crazy that he ever thought that was okay.

They both need counselling. Yes he may have witnessed events with your ex/him leaving, but he can’t take his uncontrolled feelings out on his sister.

She needs to be protected at all costs. I know you’re saying that she’s okay, she’s sad he’s upset, she misses him etc but she’s a young child and doesn’t understand the severity. I think you should separate them as much as you can including restricting how much they play together.

I know my son, he has struggled with his self-esteem for a long long time so him using those words to describe himself didn’t come as a surprise and it certainly wasn’t an attempt to garner sympathy or manipulate me.
Yes he lied when first confronted with it, I suspect that was because he knows how wrong what he did was and didn’t want to get in trouble- not a brilliant way to deal with a serious situation but not that out of the ordinary either, adults lie all the time to avoid taking responsibility for things.
When he spoke to the police and social worker he was honest, he didn’t try and cover up what he’d done, he didn’t lie- that’s the important thing

No one is claiming what he did falls within the realms of normality or that it was right or that he thought it was ok to do it.

The advice from the social worker was to let my daughter carry on as normal, obviously talk to her if she brings it up but, because no emotional connection has been made to the event, if I act differently around her and him it could do more damage in the long run.
I will of course be supervising them at all times when they are in the same room together but I’ll do it discreetly- we don’t have a massive house and the only way to keep them separate would be to confine my son to his room which isn’t practical and would only serve to solidify his already poor self opinion.

I am fully aware that what he did is horrific, will change our family dynamic for quite some time, if not forever and will Potentially have wider consequences for both of them. I am not going to make the situation worse by locking him away from us.

I’ve realised neither the police officer or the social worker gave me any contact details, they said they would at the start but we clearly all forgot- I don’t have an incident number either. They said they’d contact me tomorrow so I will have to hope that that’s the case.

I think her safety should come before him in this situation. If he truly understands that what he did was abhorrent, he would understand why he can’t be around her. What he did is considered sexually deviant behaviour for his age, not age-appropriate curiosity

His poor opinion of himself isn’t his sister’s problem. She shouldn’t be used to soothe his bad moods. That’s something you need to work on via counselling and in months consider alleviating, not now. He had bad self esteem before this occurred, so going on as normal won’t make him feel better because his problems were already there. He needs specialist support. Especially if you want to ensure this is a one off.

You can’t say that there hasn’t been an emotional connection. She already said she felt sick. As she gets older, she’ll realise how fucked up this was. She won’t always look back at this as a neutral event through a 6 year old’s eyes. She won’t always want to be around him as she does now. In time this can really impact her mental health, self esteem and her future relationships. She’s a victim of abuse. If this happened to you as a child, how would you have wanted want your parents to react? Personally I wouldn’t want them to just carry on as if things are normal.

I’m simply following the advice of the police and social worker
I am not prioritising him over her, I am not minimising what he’s done and I am certainly not using her to soothe his bad moods!!!

She doesn’t understand what’s happened at present, I am fully aware that as she gets older she will understand but, right now, if she wants to talk or play with her brother I am not going to stop her just as I am equally not going to force them to spend time with each other. I am taking her lead, I am not leaving them alone together I do not believe that confining him to his room is the answer though

I’ve realised neither the police officer or the social worker gave me any contact details, they said they would at the start but we clearly all forgot- I don’t have an incident number either. They said they’d contact me tomorrow so I will have to hope that that’s the case.

Please take the lead on this and contact them now to request that - you can call whoever you called initially and they can work out who came out to you, you can't just sit and hope they get in touch.

I'm very surprised they haven't organised or suggested any counselling or at least a further visit to assess if your daughter may need further help.

She likely will in the future because as she herself becomes aware of what is normal / acceptable with regards to sexual feelings, she will likely have a sort of second wave of disgust at her brother and due to their ages that's also likely to coincide with her going through puberty and him being a teenager.

From someone who has been there, please don't think that because she at this moment doesn't realise the implications of this she won't be just as affected later on.

The only way I can try to explain it is you thinking about your initial reaction when you thought about what he actually did - then imagine her realising that's happened to her, by him. I feel awkward and try too hard to be 'normal' around him which makes me feel embarrassed and sad as his shame and awkwardness about what happens manifests itself in a total rejection of me and refusal to relax around me and treat me nicely. He can't get too close as I know too much sort of thing. It's awful.

And I'm in my early thirties now. It was all about him and his struggle, because people thought I wouldn't understand what had happened. I didn't at the time but I do now.

Ask for help, ask for resources, ask for a plan to manage this - start today by calling whoever you called initially and insisting you get contact details of whoever came over.

I feel for you and find it hard not to feel angry for your little girl, not angry at you, but angry she has this burden now.

Please be there for her always

People thought I wouldn't understand what had happened
people often seem to think that when a young child is abused it doesn't matter because they won't remember or they don't understand, but they do remember and the brain always seeks to understand.
Because you don't have the sophistication of an adult you can't process it in the way that an adult would and so what the child 'understands' is that they are an object to be exploited humiliated and abused,
The child understand that people who they trust are also people who can abuse exploit and humiliate them with impunity, this means that they can trust no one and they can never feel safe.
the child that has been hard-wired in this way because of early experiences is permanently damaged.

You are dealing with this and doing the right thing OP, and so many cases it just gets swept under the carpet and the damage is never addressed.

It is the weekend, I am sure the social worker will be in contact on Monday. The initial visit yesterday was an emergency to assess if the young girl was at risk if she remained living in the family home.

On the dynamic of the brother and sister, yes this will forever change their relationship and the family dynamic. As the girl grows older, she will start to understand what her brother did and this will likely cause her a lot of pain. As adults she may not want anything to do with her own brother, especially when she has children of her own. It is tragic.

Im sorry if this sounds harsh, but even if SS and the police are happy for him to remain in the house, i don't see how you can be. She's your daughter! She's six years old, she's completely dependent on you for protection. She's been the victim of oral rape and the fact that it seems to be a one off and her brother seems very remorseful doesnt take away the fact that he made a conscious choice to physically violate her in a way that will leave a permanent psychological mark. I know it is heartbreaking, but i don't see how you could possibly be comfortable having him in the house with your daughter, even under supervision. Surely she needs to be the priority? Surely she mustn't be allowed to see that someone could do something so incredibly wrong to her, and receive no consequences? What sort of message does that send?

There will be consequences for him, he’s going to have to undertake lengthy counselling, his school will know what he did- believe me, she will know action was taken and there were repercussions for him.

She is my priority, I am doing all I can for her- it hasn’t been 48 hours since I was told what happened and I reported it as soon as I was told, the police and social services have been round

He is also my child too, as I explained before, there is nowhere for him to go- no relatives nearby to have him, no other parent to go and stay with so my only option would be to put him into care- if social services, the trained professionals, do not think that would be an appropriate course of action then I will go with their advice and ensure the children are not left alone at any time.

I am fully fully aware of the severity of what he’s done and the wider ramifications for my daughter, I look at him and feel a mixture of anger and disgust at him- I’ve barely slept for 2 days trying to process what’s happened and how my little family could change overnight
I am doing my best in horrible circumstances, I’ve never been in this situation before so can only go on the advice of the professionals who unfortunately deal with this day in and day out

Well done for doing so well in such horrible circumstances OP, I think you've done better thank a lot of us would in this situation.
I know you have said several times that your family live over 100 miles away, but can I ask why your son still couldn't go and stay with his grandparents or other family for a little bit? Just in the immediate aftermath? Yes 100 miles is a long way but it's entirely doable for him to be picked up or dropped off there and have a couple of days where your daughter doesn't have to have him around? And you won't have to be so on edge watching them constantly?

My mum is currently shielding so he can’t go there, my brother lives alone and is a hospital worker so he can’t go there and my sister had a baby in February and currently has PND so he can’t go there

There is nowhere for him to go

You are incredible OP. I wish you'd been my mum.

You're doing great.

Well done OP, you've done everything to the very best of your ability.

In my opinion QuestionableDanceMoves needs support not criticism as she is dealing with a situation that the majority of us cannot even imagine being in. OP informed SS without hesitation and has protected her daughter by not leaving the children alone. There will probably be many more hurdles to overcome in the following weeks, months and years and will continue to need the advice of professionals to overcome. QuestionalDanceMoves continues to be the mother of 2 children and although her instincts are to clearly to protect her daughter she is rightly following the advice of people far more experienced in these matters and will continue to do so. SS and the Police have spoken to all concerned and have made an educated risk assessment based on this communication and information. The OP is doing her best in an appalling situation and doing it well.

OP, just sending another voice to the support chorus. You seem to be handling this really well, though I suspect you are still in shock to some extent. The police and SW risk assessed the home situation and decided you could keep your DD safe, then so long as nothing else happens there is unlikely to be any talk of putting him into care/staying with relatives.

Do pursue some urgent counselling for you and DD. Try your local NHS Choices self referral pathway, or your local Rape Crisis Centre, The Havens or SARCS.

www.thehavens.org.uk

www.nhs.uk/service-search/other-services/Rape-and-sexual-assault-referral-centres/LocationSearch/364

Exactly what tomanyhandbags said. For what it's worth, OP, I think you are doing the right thing, in as much as you can in this situation, by both your children.

Op

FWIW , I don't think sending him away would help dd at all .

I work in the same field as some of the professionals you have involved.

Normality is a good thing . But with vigilance. You're doing absolutely the right thing.

OP - you are doing great. There's no one-fix solution in all this, just be guided by the professionals and take each day as it comes.

Your children, both of them, are lucky to have you

It sounds like you are but listen to the professionals, not posters in this thread telling you to send him away. Youre doing fantastically in an appalling time