*trigger warning sexual harm* totally posting for traffic feeling desperate

[QuestionableDanceMoves]

My 6 year old daughter told me this evening that her 12 year old brother, my son, put his penis in her mouth this afternoon.
Initially he denied it, then said he’d only said it to her as a joke and hadn’t done anything but eventually confessed it was the truth and he had done it
He says he doesn’t know why, they both said it’s never happened before, he said he knew it was wrong to do it but did it anyway.
Their father, my exh, was emotionally and physically abusive towards me when we were together, we’ve been apart for 4 years now, which my son witnessed. He had some counselling in the initial aftermath of his father leaving but has always struggled with his emotions and anger and often says he feels out of control.

I don’t know what to do. I told my daughter she did the absolute right thing by telling me. There’s only me and the 2 kids, I have no one else. I don’t want his life to be ruined but I know this behaviour can’t go unchecked, he needs help
How do I get it for him? What do I do? I can’t believe he’s done this

Presumably he is at school? (Usually) if so, there is the chance he has been abused himself- or shown porn in the playground. Its naive to think otherwise.

I truly truly hope you can access private psychotherapy for your son immediately and your daughter needs counselling. Even if its credit cards.

Im so sorry OP. What a trauma for you as a parent too. You must feel so alone. Please choose atleast one trusted person to confide in. They may try to minimise to appease your hurt, but please listen to the posters. Something is wrong with your son, and your daughter has been sexually abused by someone she loves and trusts. She needs help now before it changes the course of her life forever.

I experienced something similar and it has affected me so profoundly every day of my life and yet it feels nothing in comparison to what others have endured.

Your son needs help now so that he never ever does this again. To anyone.

The police arent going to take him away in cuffs, they are parents themselves and there are specific and specialised departments that deal with children and sexual assault. I can guarantee this wont be the 1st time they have come across a situation like this. They can make recommendations and get referrals to channels youd otherwise struggle to get. I truly feel for you and the turmoil you must feel right now x

You must explain to your son that this is serious and you must insist he tells you where the idea came from, if he has done it before and whether he realised it was a serious wrong.
It is possible he has simply come up with the idea without realising what he was doing but at 12 he may well have seen porn or heard people talking about this, at 12 he is unlikely to realise the gravitas of it.
I doubt he would have learnt from your ex unless sexual abuse was prevelant.

OP im saying this as someone who did engage in sexual behavviour as a child, I WAS abused but another child was curious years later and i didnt see the harm in it, I genuinely didnt understand the long term effects because it was just a game that we couldnt let aduls find out about as we'd get in trouble.

Im not sure how social services would help, I suspect a big ass bollocking with honest talk about his age in relation to YOI WOULD ensure that he is too embarrassed/scared to try it again.

Curiousity is not evil but it leads to perceived evil things being done ignorantly or innocently. Make your son know this behaviour leads to consequences that make him cringe and feel ashamed. Do not hold back.

My daughter already sleeps in my room, she’s never slept in her own room because she wakes up all through the night so it’s easier if she’s next to me.

I'm so sorry I cross posted with you saying this - that's brilliant that she will be with you. Poor wee lamb, she is such a brave girl for telling you that so you must keep reinforcing that and that you're so proud of her.

Don't mix up into that anything about what happens to her brother next - eg don't say it's good you told because we can get him help - you can say he did something that is very wrong for children to do and so you are going to talk to other grown ups about it to make sure it never happens to her again.

And she must keep telling you if anything happens or even if she remembers something from before. What I'm trying to explain clumsily is dont subconsciously creative a narrative where her brother is ill and needs help.

Yes that may be true but that is too grey an area for a six year old and makes it sound like he made an accident / faux pas.

The only narrative she needs to know right now is - I was brave to tell my mummy something wrong happened, she is proud of me that I told the truth. Now, she is going to keep me safe by being close to me, listening to me and also talking to experts who's job it is to help parents keep children like me safe.

I've probably worded much clumsily but I feel for you so much.

And I hate to even say this but you need need need to get some professional help if not tonight then tomorrow for your son because (I hate even mentioning this) children are so much more easily exposed to stories about self harm and suicide now that they are very real concepts that need to be risk assessed by professionals.

This is going to be a fucking horrible time but you know what? Any time of day at all there are always people on here offering help.

As long as you commit to involving social workers IMMEDIATELY and agreeing to whatever they say, even if it means reporting to police, you need to go with it.

Your son has done a terrible thing which means your daughter has been sexually assaulted at six. It's going to be a long road but we are here for you.

Ask for every bit of help and support the professionals offer you.

@QuestionableDanceMoves there are a lot of arseholes in this thread coming from a “it would never happen to me” place.

You do need outside help - I don’t know what the best agency is, but don’t let people here making you feel scared put you off.

grumpy I don’t see anyone saying or thinking it wouldn’t happen to them?

OP you can look at the NCPCC framework, a single non violent but coercive act by an under 13 would likely receive home help from social services - But you have to let the experts guide you.

Well done for placing that call.

I agree, it's easy to say it would never happen but you cannot say that and imagine how OP feels. It is awful! OP, it will get easier and hopefully you can all get the help to get past this. People saying your son needs to be removed from the home don't know this. Easier said than done but don't stress just focus on getting the help.

socially I haven’t said he WILL be removed but it is a real possibility and the op has to be aware of this. And I have professional experience in this area.

I'm so sorry OP, this must be a horrific situation for you to deal with. I'm sitting next to my little girl who's only 15 months old as she sleeps and I'm holding back tears.
I still remember at five years old sitting in the child phychologists office as she asked me questions about an immediate family member because of a report made by my 15 year old sister. It was strange and unsettling but nothing compared to finding out what had been reported years later and having to live with the person when I had no idea if the person I saw every day was capable of being the monster he was portrayed. I never forgave my mother for choosing to stay, and forcing me to try and deal with the fear all alone, and sweeping everything under the carpet. Now after close examination as an adult with studies in child psychology, I genuinely believe that the report was malicious, but it's already ruined my childhood regardless. Please don't let your daughter live in fear for the rest of her life. Your son needs you, but your daughter needs to be shown you will protect her too. No matter what.

I truly hope you can find the strength to do what is right, because the alternative will irrevocably scar you all for the rest of your lives.

What @bunbunbun has said

Removal is absolutely possible OP and a temp removal will cause no end of shit, 6 yr old may blame herself and 12 year old will feel he's unwanted, he cant trust you and he wont like DD.

Find out where it came from, if you focus on dd too much you may cause problems because the issue is not dd.

@QuestionableDanceMoves you sound like you have a good relationship with both your children and will do the best thing for both of them, but try and remember that you will need support from someone also as it will be on an emotional journey for all of you. Try and relax now as apart from keeping them safe as there is nothing you can do until tomorrow, and unfortunately that is likely to be a tough day for all.

@lilmishap

Im not sure how social services would help, I suspect a big ass bollocking with honest talk about his age in relation to YOI WOULD ensure that he is too embarrassed/scared to try it again.

I'm sure all advice is well intentioned but please, please, PLEASE ignore this. PleSe. No nu- uh. Not this.

You know want someone too embarrassed / scared to do a behaviour, that's not the end goal.

You need them to work hard with therapy and sometimes meds not not do it every again because you've worked on the disordered thinking, confused sexuality development and any other personalities disorders or mental issues to an extent t they would never WANT to do something like that again. Because they wouldn't WANT to do it. You can't bollock all sexually inappropriate children into never doing it again. Because some of them will, without professional support, want to do it again, perhaps for a long time / for life.

So no, as parents we should work on what will keep my child, with this info I have, as safe as possible.

A bollocking for the son in Op's case, would be such an under reaction it would be an insult to her daughter.

An oral rape of a younger sibling cannot ever and shoul never be dealt with within the family unit. EVER.

You've done exactly the right things; you have talked to your DC calmly, you are protecting your daughter, you have rung agencies for help. You can only wait now. I'm so sorry this has happened to your family.

It stuck out to me that your DD wanted to hug him when she saw how upset he was.

There is a possibility that he will use that clear love she has for him by potentially guilty tripping her. Or he could threaten her.

This is a truly awful situation and I'm so sorry OP. I really don't see how he can live with you both any longer. Her safety is paramount.

Oh OP. You honestly sound like such a good mum. Please, please do not beat yourself up over this. Your anguish is palpable but honestly, things will be okay. You’ve all had a shock and bloody hell, no one can prepare themselves for something like this.

I suggest trying to get some sleep and then in the morning, when things are a bit calmer, ring the NSPCC and explain the situation and go from there.

Please just remember that by getting your son and daughter (and hell even you if you feel the need to talk to a professional about how you’re feeling) the help they BOTH need, honestly makes you such a good mum. You also don’t need to broadcast this, you don’t need to tell anyone unless you have/ want to.

He’s 12, it could have been a very, very stupid prank/ experiment and with some counselling he will see this. Labelling him as things and writing him off at 12 years old due to one mistake would be ridiculous. There is time to turn this around (btw I’m not saying you’re writing him off at all, I’ve said that more to illustrate the need to keep calm and think logically)

Social services just rung me back, someone will be in touch tomorrow, they are referring it to the police. She said it will be from a supportive perspective for all 3 of us, she asked if the kids were separated at present

bunbunbun I agree with every excellent post of yours.

I think he absolutely would have known what he was doing at 12, 7 or 8 not so much. Whatever else you do don't be naive, this kind of thing was freely spoken about in my sons school way before 12 and they would show each other pictures on their mobile phones and talk about it.
This is very serious and you really do have to call social services and get input from them. This is a problem that is really going to have to be thoroughly investigated along with the appropriate treatment.
Children absorb violent marriages, I know mine did. I thought he was too young to remember but he certainly was not and exhibited some very bizarre behaviour later on.
My friends 11 year old son abused a very small child she childminded and social services had to be involved, it was all very sad. My friend was abused by her husband also.
You are not the only one. But the correct steps must be taken, your son has to understand that this behaviour is never, ever acceptable and there will be consequences including being reported to social services. He must not be allowed to get away with it with tears and apologies, it should never have happened in the first place.
Do not be tempted to deal with this on your own.
My friends son was not removed from his family but of course the childminding license was withdrawn and he had to have a couple of years with a child psychologist.

Nicknacky you are right it may technically be rape but it’s not the same as an adult doing this act with intent. He’s still a child and children are impulsive, lack understanding of the consequences of what they are doing. In all likelihood he was satisfying a curiosity the way siblings can when experimenting with their bodies. This is a particular horrific example of that and it went way beyond normal experimenting. He does need immediate intervention. But I can imagine OP is afraid now that her son will be labelled a rapist, maybe put on an offenders register.

Not to minimise at all what OPs daughter is going through. You will all need a lot of help to get through this, I really feel for you OP. Please consider what is best for both your children.

OP im saying this as someone who did engage in sexual behavviour as a child, I WAS abused but another child was curious years later and i didnt see the harm in it, I genuinely didnt understand the long term effects because it was just a game that we couldnt let aduls find out about as we'd get in trouble.

I don't think about this much now, but this has just made me remember that when I was about 10/11, myself and 3 friends often used to do stuff to each other - genuinely wasn't sexual in the slightest - was curious and it felt 'naughty' in that we definitely were hiding it from parents/carers. One such incident involved my friends 7 yr old brother (literally a case of you show me yours I will show you yours etc)

As someone else said, there's 12 and there's 12. I know 12 year olds who are mature beyond their years (well, they think they are) and 12 year olds who are still little kids.

BOTH types of 12 year olds are children. One though could be a sinister attempt to 'abuse' - the other could be curious , copying something, stupid behaviour. NEITHER are acceptable but it is 'normal' to be curious as a child particularly as you hit puberty.

But in this case, they are BOTH your children. Only you know your own kids.

God knows what I would do but you will have to seek professional advice for sure.

I would hope to god what we did as kids didn't affect any of us involved. It certainly didn't affect me and I would presume I wouldn't be the only child who did this. However, this was 1980s', no such talks from NSPCC etc about how your body was your body etc. I 'm pretty sure if I were a child today, I wouldn't have done it.

I guess what I'm saying is - he's got the idea from somewhere. He needs to know it's 100% not acceptable (clearly) If your daughter is ok, it could actually make things a million times worse by talking this down a 'your son gets removed' route

Christ.

Social services just rung me back, someone will be in touch tomorrow, they are referring it to the police. She said it will be from a supportive perspective for all 3 of us, she asked if the kids were separated at present

Glad to hear this OP