Help! I have a gender non-conforming DS, and feel like the rubber is hitting the road.

[WankmasterBastardDeLaShithead]

DS (10) has been "gender non-conforming" since he was a toddler, and able to choose clothes and toys. We've generally just let him get on with it, not making a big deal about it, and letting him know that it's fine to be a boy and wear a dress/play with dolls etc. He's navigated his own way through all sorts of situations with ingenuity, and grim determination .

Anyway as he's getting older we're encountering more and more tricky situations. Toilets have been a sticking point, although we've mostly got round that by encouraging him to use "neutral" loos where possible. The school organised a meeting for us to discuss this, after an incident where he wet himself (after feeling uncomfortable/unwelcome in the boys' loos, but discouraged by me to use the girls' loos). He now uses the neutral loos at school.

Today though, I've come up against two dilemmas to do with sex /gender identity, and I'm just not sure what position to take. Firstly he goes to gymnastics in a mixed class. His teacher spoke up me after the class, referring to him as 'she' and taking about putting him forward to a (sex segregated) competition at some point in the future. I had registered him for the classes as a boy (obviously), but haven't had an explicit conversation about his gender. He does look "girly" (longish hair) so I completely understand why they're mistaken. I didn't correct the teacher in the moment, as it was in public and this is one thing (correcting people on his gender) that DS finds embarrassing. He doesn't mind being called he or she, but he does mind any "fuss" about it.

I then got home to find an email from his school about an initiative aimed at encouraging girls' confidence, and his teacher feels that he would like to do it. Argh. It's well-meaning, and I know comes from an understanding that his friends are nearly all girls, he looks like a girl, and he will feel left out if he isn't included. Obviously I'm very uncomfortable about this, but my heart is also aching for DS, because this will probably be difficult for him.

Basically if there wasn't such weird gender stereotyping in our society, I'm pretty sure DS would be happily rocking out as a girly boy, but because there is, he's being made to feel that to do the things he likes doing, he has to "be" a girl. It's so shit.

Anyway, I just feel so stuck as to how to do the right thing by DS. Any advice?

Perspicacia - I'm assuming you haven't RTFT?

He's in his penultimate year of primary.

Interesting anecdote about your neighbour. Care to elaborate on its relevance? Because I'm finding it hard to interpret it in any other way than a vicious little dig. If that's the case, I'm wondering why you feel the need to do this to some random parent on the internet who's looking for (and mostly receiving) support.

This makes me so sad. I thought (think) there is a lad like your DS in every primary achool class. There was one in mine, one is DD's I am struggling to place one from DS's but possibily was'nt on my radar. It caused no problems he liked ballet, wore pink was quite artistic and was invited to all the girl's partys.The lad in my year chose to play netball and do cross country dancing rather than football- he is a happily married gay man, who still wears make up occasionally. It's normal and school should be well used to dealing with it.

Because I'm finding it hard to interpret it in any other way than a vicious little dig.

Actually I reported that post myself because it was irrelevant and outing. However, in no way was it intended to be vicious. I wrote it as he did not get the support he needed growing up. I previously mentioned this issue is quite familiar to me.

As I risk offending you, I am withdrawing from this thread. I wish your boy happiness in his remaining years in primary.

Ah I see, the anecdote was to illustrate how a boy who wears dresses, if insufficiently supported, may eventually end up in an adult residential care home. Thanks for clearing that up.

the anecdote was to illustrate how a boy who wears dresses

He did not just wear dresses, there were other things as there are with your child eg bathroom usage. Oh forget it. You came here to be told you are doing terrific parenting and the rest of the.world is wrong for misunderstanding everything. You are right. Everything you do and say is right. Absolutely right.

He had one accident at school, which was out of character for him, which is why it caught the teachers' attention. And no, I really didn't come here to be told I'm doing everything perfectly. I've even explicitly stated that I've been getting some things wrong, and that I've appreciated the advice.

I can hear that I'm (albeit inadvertently) pissing you off though. Maybe you have some other stuff going on in your life, which I'm unaware of, and it's causing us to rub each other up the wrong way. Thanks for your contributions to this thread. I wish you well.

It's quite disappointing to read everyone saying that the kid can dress how they want, do what they want, act how they want, except they must always correct any mistake anyone around them makes about their sex, and choose a name that avoids any ambiguity. Why are they free to do what they want in so many areas, except the one that actually requires them to confront people?

The name thing is a complete red-herring anyway, just like people will ignore the pronouns they hear, they'll also ignore the name, it doesn't matter if the name is something solidly male like Brendan, people will just assume it's Brenda, and use that.

Gymnastics is one of the most horribly, disgusting gendered environments that you get, so the experience there is strange, as dress code and activities would normally force the children into distinct gender identities earlier than 10, so it's an unusual club. Given that gymnastics treats kids so differently - praising boys for strength displays and girls for artistic even when at ages where there's no physical differences I can foresee a child getting a very different experience if they're continuously correcting peoples unconscious perceptions. Suddenly not getting any praise of the type you welcome, or chastised for the inability to do something that an opposite gender would not.

OP, you clearly as you say made a mistake in not following up immediately with entering him in a girls competition, but I don't think that means you need to force him to change the dynamic of every meeting he has in the future by stating his sex in every interaction, it's something that will resolve itself in a couple of years as sex differentiation becomes more obvious, but the change in how he's treated before that by people could have a much bigger impact.

All the people in this thread demanding they know the sex of your child, are demanding because they want to treat him differently. If sex didn't matter, then they would not be demanding to know. He hasn't asked for, uses or (seemingly) wants any facilities not of sex, or access to any private spaces, so long as he continues with that, no-one needs to know his sex. It can remain up to him if he chooses to invest the effort in explaining over carrying on doing what he's doing.

The bullying at school is sadly quite common, schools are (rightly) so strict on access to sex-divided places that many kids do police it, it's very rarely conscious, targeted bullying initially, but like anything once it's known to impact another, many will continue to do it.

And I find it so weird that people think unisex toilets are a strange or bad thing in schools, I can only assume they were the bullies of the same sex using these areas to make kids lives miserable, proper privacy comes from toilet and sink facilities being one at a time, thankfully more schools realise this.

“ And I find it so weird that people think unisex toilets are a strange or bad thing in schools”

It’s not “weird” to want to retain single sex facilities. It’s good sense for privacy and safety (and most DC and young people’s preferences).

The vast majority of schools currently still have single sex toilets. Thankfully.

Well said Dozer, and especially for girls who at this age (10) may well have started their periods.

sirfred, when you say unisex, do you mean individual toilets with sinks inside?

Honestly I just don’t get this ... he’s a boy so should use boys toilets. Where’s the confusion in that? He’s happy being a boy so why not correct everyone when they refer to him as female? It’s mind boggling. OP, I’ll say again, you’re creating drama and confusion where there needn’t be any.

All the people in this thread demanding they know the sex of your child, are demanding because they want to treat him differently
But he’s currently being treated as a girl (which he isn’t), not neutrally. Why is being treated as a girl better?

sirfred, when you say unisex, do you mean individual toilets with sinks inside?

Yes, exactly this, so "the girls starting their periods" are not having to o anything in front of anyone, so aren't getting bullied by other girls, which is considerably more common than being bullied by an occasional boy who ends up in the wrong place.

I feel for you, OP. GNC girls are less likely to be told they're boys than the other way around, because women can and do wear trousers and it's considered normal. This took lots of struggles by women, though.

Maybe men should start to challenge stereotypes, and then boys who want to wear dresses wouldn't immediately be assumed to be trans.

he’s a boy so should use boys toilets.

As long as he doesn't use the girls toilets why does it matter to you what toilet he uses? If he's being bullied when using the boys toilets what is your solution? Yes, the school should attempt to stop the bullying but that is far easier said than done and children's lives can be made a misery by the constant bullying that goes on. Ime, unless the bullying becomes physical then schools are not great at dealing with, and stopping, the name calling and "teasing". At the moment, he is being stopped from using the boys toilets. I don't see the problem in him being allowed to use a separate toilet, as long as it isn't the girls toilets.

I think you need to challenge it as much as you can, away from your son if possible so as not to make him feel embarrassed or like it's a big thing.
People dont seem to like actually thinking about these kinds of things.

If someone refers to him as she and you challenge it and they ignore it, call them out.
I would point out that it's sexist behaviour to assume he is transgender because of his interests. It assumes activities are either for boys or for girls, which is regressive and stupid.

Anyway as he's getting older we're encountering more and more tricky situations. Toilets have been a sticking point, although we've mostly got round that by encouraging him to use "neutral" loos where possible. The school organised a meeting for us to discuss this, after an incident where he wet himself (after feeling uncomfortable/unwelcome in the boys' loos, but discouraged by me to use the girls' loos). He now uses the neutral loos at school.

Why is there an issue with using male toilets? There shouldn’t be. Why insist on using neutral loos where possible? He’s a boy for goodness sake. Use boys toilets!

There’s nothing there to say he’s being bullied .... This is one of the things it seems OP is trying to make a point and make situations worse imo.

Whattodo - I love how you're so determined that I'm "trying to make a point". It's really amusing me.

Although I'm baffled as to what the point is! Remind me what point I'm trying to make?

I’m not the only one thinking this way .... you’re deliberately confusing things. Why make your son use neutral loos? He’s a boy, use boys loos. It’s very simple. People call him she, correct them - simple.

Why would I be deliberately confusing things? What on earth do I have to gain? Using the neutral toilets was suggested by the school by the way. Are you suggesting that I should have discouraged him from using toilets that he (and everyone else) is allowed to use? It seems to be that that would be "trying to prove a point".

Why make your son use neutral loos? He’s a boy, use boys loos.

Why? If the gender neutral loo is there for everyone and anyone to use why must he use the boys? And you might say that he's not being bullied but the fact that he's "being made to feel unwelcome" in the boys toilets suggests that there is bullying going on.