Help! I have a gender non-conforming DS, and feel like the rubber is hitting the road.

[WankmasterBastardDeLaShithead]

DS (10) has been "gender non-conforming" since he was a toddler, and able to choose clothes and toys. We've generally just let him get on with it, not making a big deal about it, and letting him know that it's fine to be a boy and wear a dress/play with dolls etc. He's navigated his own way through all sorts of situations with ingenuity, and grim determination .

Anyway as he's getting older we're encountering more and more tricky situations. Toilets have been a sticking point, although we've mostly got round that by encouraging him to use "neutral" loos where possible. The school organised a meeting for us to discuss this, after an incident where he wet himself (after feeling uncomfortable/unwelcome in the boys' loos, but discouraged by me to use the girls' loos). He now uses the neutral loos at school.

Today though, I've come up against two dilemmas to do with sex /gender identity, and I'm just not sure what position to take. Firstly he goes to gymnastics in a mixed class. His teacher spoke up me after the class, referring to him as 'she' and taking about putting him forward to a (sex segregated) competition at some point in the future. I had registered him for the classes as a boy (obviously), but haven't had an explicit conversation about his gender. He does look "girly" (longish hair) so I completely understand why they're mistaken. I didn't correct the teacher in the moment, as it was in public and this is one thing (correcting people on his gender) that DS finds embarrassing. He doesn't mind being called he or she, but he does mind any "fuss" about it.

I then got home to find an email from his school about an initiative aimed at encouraging girls' confidence, and his teacher feels that he would like to do it. Argh. It's well-meaning, and I know comes from an understanding that his friends are nearly all girls, he looks like a girl, and he will feel left out if he isn't included. Obviously I'm very uncomfortable about this, but my heart is also aching for DS, because this will probably be difficult for him.

Basically if there wasn't such weird gender stereotyping in our society, I'm pretty sure DS would be happily rocking out as a girly boy, but because there is, he's being made to feel that to do the things he likes doing, he has to "be" a girl. It's so shit.

Anyway, I just feel so stuck as to how to do the right thing by DS. Any advice?

I’m another one who thinks this thread is a load of rubbish .... and actually confusing. I agree with a pp that OP seems to be pushing views and ‘trendy’ parenting.

You say your ds is a boy ... so use the boys loos ... that’s VERY simple.
Why would school staff refer to him as she if they have know for years he is a boy??
Surely, when he first enrolled in gymnastics you completed the registration as him being male?
Why speak to school and ask them to use the correct pronouns? Simply tell them he’s male!

Honestly, you don’t make sense and I think you’re actually making all situations worse OP. It sounds like you’re deliberately going ott to prove a point (a one that actually isn’t really there).

Why are there neutral loos in a primary school? Why are you encouraging such a young child to be difficult? He's a boy, he can dress any way he likes but he's a boy and should use the boys loos and be referred to as he.

Many primary schools will have some neutral toilets. My DD's old school has unisex toilets in the nursery area, plus an accessible toilet in a corridor and another unisex toilet with sink near the dining hall as well as boys/girls elsewhere. Small school too.

They really don’t.

Suit yourself. I'm not arguing.

Well played OP

Pattiprice, yes I have thought about finding a counsellor/therapist for him to talk with, but I'm somewhat concerned that it might backfire, depending on their stance on "trans" children (especially after reading comments on this thread about parental alienation etc).

Re: the neutral toilets, yes they have them in his school. They're available to all, so he doesn't have special permission.

As for "encouraging him to be difficult", I'm not sure what you mean. By difficult you mean having long hair? Wearing "girly" clothes? Playing with dolls? I don't see any of those things as being difficult, and I haven't encouraged them. I just haven't forbidden them, because that would seem weird to me. And re: the neutral toilets, the school suggested that, not me.

Whattodo - his school teachers (AFAIK) refer to him as he. It's just at his relatively new gymnastics class that they have referred to him as she (despite me registering him as a boy).

But I'd be really interested to hear where I've gone OTT. I can't see it myself!

But most people would just automatically correct a mistake on the spot, not having time to (it takes all of 5 seconds) is ridiculous. How could you leave the gym with them thinking your son is your daughter?!

Also, if a boy presents as a girl but wants to be treated as a boy, it makes no sense to use a unisex name shortening.

This is one of those threads where the woke like to post but if the vote button were allowed, it would be 2:1 on the YABU camp...

LarryGrylls, perhaps you missed the posts where I've said I'm going to be more vocal/louder/clearer about it in future? The vast majority of times he's "misgendered" is in completely inconsequential encounters with random people I'll never met again, eg leaving a shop/cafe with DS and a member of staff might say "bye hen!" (Scottish female term of endearment). I have in the past corrected it them, but it hardly seemed worth it, and also DS found it embarrassing. Obviously I should have corrected the gymnastics teacher there and then, but I was taken aback and was also in a rush. I'd also very recently had the bizarre experience of correcting another person, and them outright ignoring me, which I think at some level had thrown me.

Also, if a boy presents as a girl but wants to be treated as a boy, it makes no sense to use a unisex name shortening.

This is a very good point.

I’ve been thinking about the thread and a lot of the problems he is having is due to the boy wanting to be treated as a boy while doing and dressing as a girl. Yet the OP said he enjoys being mistaken for a girl. He is also stereotyping.

People are confused because he is confused and tbh I don’t think the OP is doing much ‘guiding’ which is her role as a parent. I really think he would benefit from counselling with another adult. He seems to be floundering in his day to day interactions and it must be very confusing for a ten year old.

"Also, if a boy presents as a girl but wants to be treated as a boy, it makes no sense to use a unisex name shortening. "

He's not "presenting as a girl", he's a boy who likes wearing sparkly jumpers and sometimes skirts. And I have no clue what you mean about the unisex name shortening - loads of people have shortened names that could be other male or female. Surely it should be enough for me to register him as a boy, introduce him in person as "he", and correct people when they get it wrong, for them to pay attention to the fact that he's a boy?

I did think about this thread today because in the park there was a child with hair up in a bow, sparkles and a colourful skirt.

In every day situations people can take in the skirt, hair up and not think twice about going for girl. Visual cues are fast and most people don’t look longer than a fleeting moment. If they’re not sure than they might look at the skirt which is less common than long hair on a boy. It’s probably impossible to stop it, well until he’s older I guess, and he is more obviously a male (might not be though no idea).

The gym teacher, I’m wondering whether they glossed over the forms and did the same. As you say it’s been a six month mistake. They might be really surprised when you correct them.

Not sure about the girl confidence email, but can be corrected in response.

"He seems to be floundering in his day to day interactions and it must be very confusing for a ten year old." I understand that you're basing this on the information I'm bringing to this thread, which almost by definition is the problematic stuff. In my original post you can see that he has managed to navigate his way so far really very well. The school have confirmed that he's confident and popular in the classroom and playground. The toilet issue was a hiccup, but it's been resolved. Pretty much the only thing that needs to be improved on at the moment is how he (and I) handle misgenderings in public/"unexpected" situations, and I have established a way forward with that.

Just wanted to chip in again to say that as a mum of a GNC (gender non conforming) child, if this story sounds at all confused/confusing it is because it is really hard to know how to handle things. It’s hard to decide what will be helpful and what will be harmful in the many situations that arise.

The OP has clearly been thinking deeply about how best to support her child and also the impact on the other children in school and in the club. She has taken on board some robust advice and views and fended off some narky criticism.

It is not an easy thing to manage in the current climate of polarised views. Every time my teen says, “Mum...” I think here we go, it’s the transgender conversation. My goal is that they will leave my care confident about who they are, sexually functioning, fertile and hopefully not wanting mutilating surgery.

Respect to you OP. Good luck to PPs who think this is straightforward.

I would also have to politely disagree that I'm not guiding him as a parent. It's been a fine balance sometimes between listening to his preferences (eg that I don't correct randoms on his sex) and taking a firmer line, and yes I know I've got it wrong sometimes, but that's just parenting!

Thank you so much Payfrozen

Marsha - I'm pretty sure that's quite right!

If you go onto the feminism board, where transgender is a hot topic, the prevailing argument is that children should be allowed to dress how they.like and play with what they like. That doesn't mean that they have changed sex. However, reading posts on this thread you can see just exactly how children are being pushed down the transgender route - so many posters seem unable to accept that a boy wearing a skirt is just that - a boy wearing a skirt. They seem to be arguing that for a boy to be seen as a boy they must wear stereotypical boy clothes, have a boy's name and play with boys toys. Why? Especially in regards to the unisex name. Loads of children have unisex names or shorten their names to a unisex version - why does that mean anything? Most girls wear trousers, many will have short hair and plenty will have a unisex name - do you argue that these girls are boys? We don't do we. We just accept that they are girls. Why can't boys be treated the same?

Just to be clear, you dont correct people misgendering/wrongly assuming the sex of your son because you dont want to make a fuss? Is correcting someone, saying "hes a boy" in neutral tones now considered a fuss. Youd better be careful op, ive heard misgendering leads to literal deaths.

Last week I took my child to the dentist. She has an uncommon but not unusual or difficult name. There is a shortening which I dislike and she has never been called or referred to by that name. Eg Elizabeth nn Betty. The dental nurse approached her using the shortening. It is the first time it had happened to her as far as I’m aware and she is a good few years younger than your son. My daughter and I both looked at one another and then at the nurse and I replied that’s not her name, her name is X. I don’t think my daughter would have said it herself but I could see she was confused and disliked it. One of my jobs, as her parent, is to show her what to do in situations like that. If the dental nurse had called her John, I’d have done the same thing.

Wearing a skirt (even ‘sometimes’) with long hair with a sparkly hair tie is and girls’ My Little Pony boots is, to 99% of the population, presenting as a girl. Only on the outer fringes of the woke universe would this be normal dress for a boy!

I think you doth protest too much.

He is not John Bon Jovi with a deep voice and a large Adam’s apple.

And you did not correct the gym in the moment, says a lot.

He’s definitely still a boy. Not sure anyone on this thread has said otherwise. But chances that he’ll be mistakenly called ‘hen’ etc go up.

I agree on the name, unisex is doesn’t have to be out there, eg Sam is fairly innocuous. And I’m sure the op didn’t know when she named him what the situation would be in ten years.