Men at baby groups...

[Foxmuffin]

I might be BU but I’ve got a 3 month old baby and have been going to a few baby groups. I find it a bit off putting when partners/husbands join Mum and baby. I totally understand that women who have had sections will need help driving and possibly lifting things but have also know partners drop off and find a pub/cafe for the hour groups go on.

I’m EBF and I’ve been to a group of 9 where I was the only one BFing, with groups of new mums I feel comfortable just getting my boob out to feed, but when babies are on the bottle with men there I feel a bit uncomfortable and it kind of spoils it for me. I suppose if their partner is BFing I feel a bit more like they’ll understand. Please understand I’m not looking down at FF, it’s more that if Mum’s OH is used to seeing BFing and babies feeding for comfort for what can sometimes feel like most the group I feel they’ll understand.

My own DH went back to work after a week so I’ve been doing all these things on my own for some time. He has never been one to pander over either of us so I’ve had to do the food shop etc myself and get on without support (actually a little pandering would have been nice, but he’s not like that).

I’m probably being self conscious, I don’t mind feeding in public but in enclosed spaces I feel the need to be more discreet which then spoils baby bonding time which is why I go to these classes.

@MonkeyTrap that's not the problem of parent an baby groups.

@MonkeyTrap no, you went o a professional about your anxiety, you also went to a parent and baby group. Different scenarios, can you see that? You see a medical professional about you, the parent and baby group is for everyone.

You came along saying men should be banned because you felt uncomfortable and were told you were being unreasonable and then flounced only to come back woe is me everyone is mean and talking about equality. Equality means no one is excluded based on protected characteristics- sex being one of those- so excluding men from these groups would constitute a breach of the equality act. If you feel that you need reasonable adjustments as a breast feeding mother you can speak to the venue who may be able to offer a feeding room as per the equality act.

@Contraceptionismyfriend
And you were not asked to judge post on reasonableness.

@codenameduchess

please point me to where I said men should be banned

Please, please do.

OP I can understand.

I went to the BF clinic in the hospital ward in my nightie (didn't realise was both for inpatients and outpatients) and encountered a friend from baby group with her three week old and her husband all dressed up for a day out.

I then had my boobs yanked around fairly indiscretely by a BF consultant (in the interests of a good latch)

I found it all pretty mortifying but I suppose the husband didn't notice or mind.
The self consciousness is probably mostly in own head I think

@MonkeyTrap what a ridiculous statement. If a post is unreasonable then you have no control over responses. You have to except that like baby groups you're not the one in charge.

@Contraceptionismyfriend

This is exactly my point. i have not asked for the groups to change I have merely said I felt uncomfortable.

How has everyone interpreted that I’m demanding a blanket ban for men from I feel a bit uncomfortable and it kind of spoils it for me

You’re all just enjoying the drama. It’s like a bloody playground. You’ve spotted a weakness and zoned in. Making accusations that plainly aren’t true.

The issue raised in the original OP reminds me of a thread a few years back, where a woman thought it was wrong that men are allowed to stay overnight on the ward after their wives have given birth, because she felt uncomfortable trying to establish breastfeeding with men around.

It's such a shame that men are still being singled out for trying to do the right thing by both their DC's and their wives.

I think it's great men are becoming more and more proactive within their families.

OK you don't want it changed. Good for you. Just work on getting comfortable feeding around other people and then it's all fine.

Nobody's enjoying the drama. There is no drama at all. If you can't deal with this then it might be better for you not to come back to it.

I have a male friend who took shared paternity leave. He was determined to go to parent and baby groups for both him and his DS's benefit. He probably did make some women feel uncomfortable and was mindful of this. Those women had every right to feel uncomfortable. But I hope they still tried to make him feel welcome and saw it as their issue rather than his.

I understand op. I have been the mum with a third degree tear and bleeding nipples and I feel more comfortable with women. But if a man came to a group I was at, I would try to engage them and welcome them as I have seen them excluded and ignored. We all have this amazing thing in common male or female.

*@Contraceptionismyfriend

OK you don't want it changed. Good for you. Just work on getting comfortable feeding around other people and then it's all fine.*

Exactly. I have had some useful tips from
this post. I did acknowledge very early on the banning men wasn’t the answer (having never asked or suggested that in the first place).

@SummerHouse
Thank you, I had some bad tearing too and it was really embarrassing as I was struggling with incontinence and kept farting without warning! I’m not there now but the whole childbirth thing has left me feeling pretty low with my body. It’s been really great to hear that people don’t think men actually give a shit and are interested in what they’re actually doing with their own child.

I am glad you have got through that OP. Our bodies are bloody amazing right!? To have grown a child and given birth... even if they do rip and stretch a little... they are beautiful. Hope you don't let this thread get you down. We could all do with being a bit kinder IMO. Hope you step away and enjoy your lovely baby.

where a woman thought it was wrong that men are allowed to stay overnight on the ward after their wives have given birth,

And she was right, too.

YABVU
I get that you feel uncomfortable getting your boob out but look at it this way... any men wh8ve made the effort to get out to baby groups with their baby are usually pretty into the whole parenting thing... and so are very likely to feel positively about breastfeeding even if it's not what they have ended up going with themselves.
I do think dads should be welcomed and encouraged at baby groups as it would be great if dads in general were encouraged to be more hands on parents and that was the norm. Sadly even in this day and age I think it's not most dads... it's a higher number than it used to be for certain... but you still dont see many dads out doing these things... especially alone...
My own husband is a very hands on dad but does feel awkward going to groups as quite often hes the only dad there. There are a couple of other dads who ocassionally go to some... I think it's quite sad. These guys obviously want to bond with their babies or give the mum a bit of a break or help the mum at the group.... and it must be hard because often they dont get chatted to as much and they just stand there looking awkward... they havent come to gawp at anyones boobs.
And there are plenty of stay at home dads or single dads who are doing the primary childcare! I mean it would be very harsh if they couldn't ge at the groups....
They do do dads groups but in my area there is only one once a month and it's not even in the town centre it's in the nearest city.... so a bit of a trek!

Equality means no one is excluded based on protected characteristics- sex being one of those- so excluding men from these groups would constitute a breach of the equality act

You misunderstand the Equality act then. The Equality act absolutely allows for sex based exemptions. You should read it so you can absolve yourself of your ignorance.

@JessicaWakefieldSV I'm familiar with it thanks. In this scenario discriminating against someone because they are male is discrimination plain and simple, it's a group for parents and carers not women. A breastfeeding mother and ask for reasonable adjustments, it is the discretion of the venue as to what these are but refusing entry to a male is not reasonable.

Perhaps address your own ignorance first?

It's such a shame that men are still being singled out for trying to do the right thing by both their DC's and their wives.

Oh poor men. Jesus Christ. This is such a misrepresentation of the issue. Men aren’t being ‘singled out’. Telling women they’re a problem if they don’t like exposing their bodies in front of males is utter misogyny. Parenting isn’t equal because men don’t carry the baby, birth or breastfeed. Women do. That’s why there are differences in the early years, and why mothers and baby groups are so important. Yes we should encourage and support involvement from new Dads, but while prioritising the needs of Mothers, as we have a unique and crucial role in the early months. I know my husband has no wish to invade spaces in a way that might make any woman uncomfortable or deter them from getting the support and time with other women that they need. I wasn’t comfortable breastfeeding in front of men in small spaces either. That doesn’t make me a bad person nor am I responsible for inequality because of that. Telling women we have to shut up and be uncomfortable if we want ‘equality’ is a shit thing to do. Personally, I want liberation. Equality is a bullshit term that doesn’t account for the differences that alter our lives.

but refusing entry to a male is not reasonable.

It can be, depending on the situation. It is also lawful. I responded to a specific comment from you, where you absolutely mistake what the Equality act says. Either that or you don’t understand it. You specifically said ‘ no one is excluded based on protected characteristics’, which is false. Nobody is suggesting banning men, as the OP has repeatedly said. That you continue insisting that’s what is being discussed, is rather silly.

All excellent points batten but I think the op has been misinterpreted on this thread. She only ever said that men at groups made her feel uncomfortable especially with regards to breastfeeding. Not that they shouldn't go. I think it's been read as an AIBU post when it's just an expression of how she feels less comfortable feeding in front of men than women.

Surely the answer is just to have a designated private space for breastfeeding at these groups? That women who want it can request to use?
I mean I've breastfed at groups where there has been men and I've seen other women doing it... I'm not sure it's the norm for women to feel uncomfortable, so I really dont think men should actually be barred from groups altogther.... and there are actually specific breastfeeding play groups you can attend. Theres one every week in my town. I've never been to it but it's just for breastfeeding mothers and it's a stay and play.
I think general stay and plays should be open to any carers but I'm sure most of them would find you a private area to breastfeed in if you wanted it?
I also know that at our local sure start childrens centre there ARE a few women only play groups. Just as there are a couple of men only play groups (although that is only once a month sadly)
I think most are just for everyone though. But it's not as though there isnt anywhere you could go if you wanted to guarantee your privacy from men.

Dads are more likely to pick up useful information chatting to other mums. I certainly did. As a new parent you can 'panic' over anything so chatting is a massive help. You may think your little one is 'doing something weird' and get concerned, but in a toddler group you discover that many do the same thing, but without communication you may never know.
With the BF thing, dads will (usually) be sensitive to mums that are 'reserved' and would avoid being too close, so as I mentioned yesterday, simply turning your seat away from the centre of the room is probably sufficient in practical terms. If you are super sensitive to the issue then that may not be quite enough. At the group I went to, those feeding went to one end of the hall (it was a big church hall).

@bananabreadforbreakfast
The issue raised in the original OP reminds me of a thread a few years back, where a woman thought it was wrong that men are allowed to stay overnight on the ward after their wives have given birth, because she felt uncomfortable trying to establish breastfeeding with men around
I seriously hope you aren't suggesting that this woman was unreasonable.

Men are being "singled" out because they don't give birth, don't breastfeed and don't share the same anatomy as the people that do these things i.e. women. I know that most posters on this thread have gone to great pains to argue that their man is an involved, engaged father that is totally unvoyeuristic, but sadly that isn't the reality for all men and lots of women don't want to be in the presence of random unvetted men when they are in various states of undress and at their most vulnerable. This is a valid desire and absolutely must be prioritised over a father's rights to spend every single moment with their new baby. It's a shame that we don't have more private rooms to allow both groups to get what they want without impacting the other, but sadly we are a long way from achieving this.

@Bumpitybumper I did find it to be unreasonable yes, if I'm being perfectly honest. IIRC, she wanted the new fathers to have to leave when others visitors did too..
I had a traumatic emergency c section with our first DC.. he was born late in the evening and had my hospital shared the same view as that woman, DH would've had to have left a mere hour after I'd come out of theatre. I was in for four nights in the end, had a massively rough time, staff were hugely stretched on the ward and couldn't keep up with the amount of women in at the time. I'd have been absolutely lost without my DH there each night to fetch me water, chase up where my pain killers were etc.

I completely believe men have the right to stay with their wives and new babies, in fact, when we was in hospital following an elective section with DC2, the nurses were glad DH was there as it (albeit marginally) lightened their workload for them as they were totally rushed off their feet, and him being there with me through the night meant he could do everything for me that I'd have otherwise had to rely on the nurses for.

@MonkeyTrap

To be fair, your OP does read like you want dads to not go. You say about them going to the pub for an hour and how much better it would be if they weren't there, so I think that's where the idea is coming from that you want them banned.

Surely the answer is just to have a designated private space for breastfeeding at these groups?

Yes that would be the answer but OP specifically said that she didn't want to go somewhere private to feed as she would miss out on the group.