mother left her children sleeping in the car and went shopping....one of them woke up....

[ruddynorah]

i work at a huge out of town m&s with an enormous car park. this woman left her small baby and her 3 year old daughter asleep in the car. she locked the doors and left the windows slightly open (it was very very hot) and went into the store to do some food shopping.

while she was shopping, the 3 year old woke up, unlocked the car door, got out and started wandering around the car park. so there she is, bare feet, half asleep, dummy in her mouth, looking for her mummy... when another customer saw her and brought her into the store for us to look after and find her mum.

the 3 year old tells me her baby sister is still asleep in the car. so we did a tannoy for her mum (at that point not sure if she actually was in our store or the asda next door, or the boots...or that the girl had given us the correct name) and the security guard went into the car park to look for this car with the door possibly wide open and a baby asleep in it( or maybe awake by then).

so i'm standing there with this 3 year old feeling slightly shaky at how awful the whole thing is, when the mother turns up with the security guard. she's gone to her car with the shopping to find her 3 year old missing. the security guard found her shouting for her daughter. she's apparently mildly concerned, but not terribly. she sees the look on my face and says... 'i know what you're thinking and it's not like that actually, i only left them for 5 minutes to get a few bits so don't look at me like that, how was i to know she could unlock the car?!' and off they went

i'm not quite sure how i was looking at her, my head was just racing with...what if someone had run this tiny child over, or what if she'd wandered off and no one stopped her...or what if someone reached in and opened the car door and took her... silly, silly woman. doubt she'll do it again.

I'm sure the little girl raped in a supermarket toilet was about 12 years old. What the heck is the comment about "how must the mother feel" Was it her fault??? A girl of 12 can easily go to the toilet by herself. She was not in the wrong. The chances of being raped there, in a busy supermarket are millions to one. Yes it's dreadful and appalling that it happened but the guy who did it is obviously a total nutter so if he hadn't done it there he would have gotten to someone somewhere else.

CSI is fiction!!!!! Therefore it will be sensationalised to make for better viewing. My pal's BF is a forensic scientist with the police and cannot bear to watch it because they do everything wrong and make gross mistakes. e.g. getting fingerprints from a steering wheel is impossible

You are kidding yourself if you think you will never put your child in danger. Every time you strap them into their car seat, you're putting them in danger. When they get to secondary school and you allow them to get on a bus by themselves, you're putting them in danger. And just wait till they're teenagers. Frankly I'm dreading it.

It is illegal to leave children under 13 alone if they are at risk.

From this thread and countless others what is blatantly obvious is no-one anywhere has a clue exactly what the law is. I've said it countless times, when your baby pops out in hospital you get Bounty packs and countless other pamphlets which are purely marketing but other than the 'how to get child benefit' leaflet, nothing which actually states what ages are legal for certain things. I believe it is not against the law to allow your child to walk to school aged 5, nor is it against the law to let them play in the street. We all did it as children so why would it therefore be against the law to leave a child in a car? I used to be allowed to go to the shops (albeit a local one) for my mum when I was 5. So that meant a 200 yard walk, round the corner and out of sight. It was OK then so when did the law actually change or is it just mass hysteria afterall? So until it is written down and put through every household's letterbox instead of the piles of junkmail we can all argue until the end of time because it is nothing other than differences of opinion!

Yes if they are at risk. But "at risk" is in the eye of the beholder and would be decided according to all the factors.

That is very illogical then. Because it is perfectly legal to allow your 12 year old to go on the bus to school every day on his own, where the risks must surely be as great as leaving them alone for a half an hour. There's a little boy who walks to school past our house every morning by himself as well, who is 9. 30 years ago he would have been considered unexceptional, but now I must admit I was a bit astonished when I first saw him. He just looks so small and vulnerable. Now whenever I see him I encourage him to walk with us because I can't bear to see him by himself. I am probably interfering in his mother's independence-building campaign.

There is no set age which children can be left alone

I think we're all forgetting about the fact that the thread on this concerned two very young children, one of which was a baby, so whether or not you can unlock a car door from the inside has absolutely nothing to do with this...unless of course babies are now becoming clever enough to undo a car door?

All children, on our streets, are always in danger at different degrees. Children have no fear. They think all cars will stop for them on a zebra crossing. They think all adults are nice to them. Strapping a child into a car seat and driving off is not dangerous....strapping them into a car seat and leaving them in the car, locked, is.

I'm sorry but anyone who leaves their kids, especially babies, left in a car on their own need help.

It is against the law to leave a dog in a car in hot weather. When did it become 'OK' to do so with a child?

I think that you will find that most people did find leaving children so young in a car while shopping was unacceptable but there are degrees of danger and it IS dangerous to strap your child into a car seat and drive off how many accidents are there every day on our roads so to say that your children are NEVR in danger is a little naive TBH.

I too have a friend who worked with evidence from crimescenes. It was too disturbing for her with all the rapes of young children. So many cases go unmentioned.

Am I really overreacting when I trust very few people out there. I have always believed that the pervs are just sitting in wait, and as it turns out ..... surprise our upstairs is a convicted paedophile (he is my husband have checked police records and old newspaper clippings). Would you say that I should leave my children sleeping in the car outside our flat?

Personally I feel that I just cannot allow myself to not keep a constant eye on my children.

I didn't say it whether t was or wasn't. That is my point exactly, it is all ambiguous. Is it good old Britain that has more dos and don't for the welfare of animals than children

that should be he.....my husband. My husband is not a paedophile.

"Strapping a child into a car seat and driving off is not dangerous."

Er yes it is.

We are all far more likely to die in a road accident, than as a result of an explosion at a petrol station, a house fire, a hijacking, etc.

But it is a risk we choose to take on behalf of ourselves and our children, because we could not function as we want to in society if we didn't take that risk. So, selfish, lazy, polluting, irresponsible parents that we are, we choose to take that risk. And doubtless in about ten years time if present trend continue, we'll be roundly condemned for it.

Maisiemor if I knew for certain I had a paedophile living upstairs, I wouldn't want to let my children out of my sight either when we're at home.

I just can't believe that there are people here who think it is ok to leave a toddler and a baby in a car alone to go in the supermarket, I really can't

Well I am sure that I and countless others agree that it is really stupid to hit yourself repeatedly on the head with a hammer but is it against the law???

The hardest part of being a parent nowadays is having to deal with the consternation and judgement of other parents, especially women.

There are shelves and shelves of 'how to bring up baby' books but they are all just opinions. So one says do this and another says do that. FGS look at Mumsnet and Gina Ford. What is neglect in the eyes of the law? It's all so hypocritical is it any wonder people may do things and not actually believe that they are nthe wrong.

Er, yesmynameis, there aren't.

I don't think I've read a single post which says "this was a good choice and she should do it again."

"I'm sure the little girl raped in a supermarket toilet was about 12 years old. What the heck is the comment about "how must the mother feel" Was it her fault??? A girl of 12 can easily go to the toilet by herself. She was not in the wrong"

I didn't say the mother was in the wrong or that the assualt was her fault - my point was meant to imply that merely not leaving children in the car does not guarantee their safety. Children can be equally at risk in shops - if they're not supervised. In that instance I cited, I imagine the mother was horrified at her daughter being assaulted (at all) in a place you'd assume was reasonably safe like a supermarket. That doesn't mean she was wrong to let her daughter go to the toilet unescorted - far from it. A 12-year old should be able to go to the toilet by herself.

Point taken bookwormmum. Sorry

Please stop bumping this thread! I'm trying my damnest not to join in here!

whilst accepting that we each have our own relative views on what safety is

and expressng my relativity compared to yours ( anyones) may make you feel inferiou.superior, angry or agreeable.

so whilst i did leave the twins and 3 year old inside to pay for petrol, i wouldn't have left them alone in the car whilst i went into a shopping centre.

My dh found a three year old the other day, playig by herself at the edge of a busyish road. He stopped the car and took her round the corner to two women gossiping he had passed earlier. When he asked if she was theirs, one of them said yes and that was it. He asked if she knew that the little girl was by a busy road, out of sight and she just said "yes, she's always running off' - and then went back to gossiping with her friend!

Some bloody people don't realise how lucky they are.

Everyone is talking about the mother and the ss. What about the children's right to being properly looked after? No caring mother in their right mind would leave two young children in a hot car outside a huge, busy supermarket. Anything could have happened. She will probably just slap the child for getting out, make sure the car locks are on next time and do it again.

VGs - don't worry. I expressed myself badly

lots of spurious arguments here - for example, leaving one's children alone in a car is a supervision issue (and if you don't believe its illegal, phone the police and ask them if you can be prosecuted - neglect and abandonment are prosecutable offences)

saying that lots of things are dangerous doesn't wash

I think to not trust most people you cannot live with a seige mantality about things. MOSt people are actually ok, it doesn't mean that bad things never happen or that loads go unreported but the majority of people out there are not going to do you or your children an harm.

Yes if I lived in such close proximity to someone I knew was a risk I would do everything to avoid the dangers but I am not doing my children any favours by wrapping them up in cotton wool. I am not going to be there when they start their first job or move out into the world and it is my job to prepare them for that and by keeping my eys on them 24hours a dsy I wouldn't be doing my job properly.

I wouldn't leave such young children but I am sure there will come a time when dd wants to stay in the car while I go into Tesco and when that day comes I will judge it on its merit at the time.

vicioussquirrelspotter.....so you think strapping a child into a car seat and driving off is not dangerous? So presumably you think not strapping them in is ok?!!!

We all face risks in our everyday lives. But we cannot put our lives on hold because of 'what if's....' etc etc. But we can all atleast take precautions - ie we can make the safety of our children a priority, we can ensure they are not at risk (ie left in cars).

Seems to me, having read these posts, that there are just a few people who seem to share the view that it is unacceptable to leave children locked in cars, despite it being just for a few minutes.

What a shame.