Kids caught "playing doctor" other mum furious

[Isthisnormalfor6yearolds]

So I'm horribly confused & frightened now and not sure what to do. My DC's (DS 6, DD 4) spent the day at my DF's house with her two DD's (also 6 & 4). They've all been friends since they were babies, so we're very excited. When I picked them up, all seemed normal. Well a few hours later, my DF calls and tells me that she caught her eldest DD & my DS in the bathroom touching each other. She said she heard my DS ask her DD to lie down and open her legs, and he touched her vagina. He also had his pants off. Apprantely they were laughing and giggling. (When I asked DS & DD later, DS said friends DD asked him to take his pants down first, DD confirms this, and that the two 4 year olds we're opening the door and thought it was all very funny).

DF finished telling me what happened and said she now has to think of her daughter and that my son is no longer allowed near her, and that we can no longer be friends.

I'm in shock. Part of me thinks, that while inappropriate, this whole thing is nothing more than normal childhood doctor. But her reaction has me looking up psychologists for my DS, who has never done anything like this before, as far as I know!

I've been googling signs of sexual abuse but he doesn't fit any of those.

I'm scared and upset 😟 and I don't know who is overreacting.

So your friend was minding the children and on her watch they both did something she seriously disapproves of, yet only you and your son are to blame?

Yes. My son is a molester because he asked her to lay down and because he touched her vulva and bum. Although, according to him and DD she touched his penis and told him to touch her. But she doesn't believe that.

Have you messaged your party friend back to explain?

I did that. I was told I was "mud-slinging" and being very unfair to her and her DD.

I think I'd be concerned for you friends dd in this situation

I would send a message to your friend. Before this is ring NSPCC for advice.

"I've spoken to ds and dd separately. It has come to light your dd instigated this by asking ds to pull down his pants and touch her vulva. This aligns with you hearing them during the touching bit. I had believed it was innocent childhood curiosity but as a response to you thinking it's something sinister, and your dd being the one requesting to be touched (how does she know about this?), Ive reported to NSPCC and asked them to get involved. I've also requested a consultation with a solicitor to address you making this personal incident public and the effect it will have on us as a family as you are telling a opinion not 100% fact."

I remember playing similar but at an older age - we used to do it under/behind my high sleeper cabin bunk because we 'knew' we shouldn't but exploration and curiosity are normal.

(Not because of your ds)

My 2 friends had this recently OP, both aged 5 and 6. the boy had asked the girl to play doctors and to show her knickers to him, she did and then he asked her to pull them down, and he pretended to be a doctor and say she needed to lie down, the boys mum walked in at this point and put a stop to it.

She played it off in a jokey kind of way when the girls mum came around but she flew off the handle, went screaming at her daughter telling her how bad she'd been, the next day going into the school who said they would have a meeting with the boys mother and sort out some appropraite training for the entire class about privacy etc.

She was basically told that as distressing as it was, it was all perfectly normal behaviour for children of that age.

and to the person who said 6 year olds should be past that - have you actually got a 6 year old? or even met one?

Before this is ring NSPCC for advice.

We aren't in the UK. So NSPCC isn't an option. However, where we are defamation is a criminal offence, so consulting a lawyer maybe my next step. Although she's already destroyed my friendships, so I'm not sure what the point would be.

This is absolutely horrible OP, I'm so sorry.

And as a mother of sons, I find some of the responses on here quite alarming. Clearly your circle of 'friends' are cut from the same cloth. Boys can't be victims, only instigators, it seems.

Boys can't be victims, only instigators, it seems.

Thing is, I don't think there is a victim here (at least not of the initial playing doctor), it sounds like it was consensual. Yes her DD was the instigator, but her DD has always gone on about how she's going to marry my DS and trying to kiss and hug him, etc, so honestly I thought them getting caught playing doctor was going to happen someday! What I never expected was this reaction from my friend.

The PANTS rule is great. I was able to explain quite early on that bottoms are private and DD knows who can and can't touch. I know that won't stop some kids exploring but just wanted to share as we found it helpful. If it was my DD I'd probably have over reacted as well and might need a day or two to become more rational so you may want to hold off further texts etc. if you want to try and salvage the friendship.

if you want to try and salvage the friendship.

I don't.

if you want to try and salvage the friendship.

I don't.

With the recent events it seems to have swung towards it always being the Male at fault - whatever the situation.

It scares me as the mother of a son.

And I say all this as a victim of rape.

Have a google for whatever your version of NSPCC is. But you need to make sure your ds isn't branded and labelled at the tender age of 6 for something 6yo do.

If it was my DD I'd probably have over reacted as well

Even if there was a distinct possibility that your daughter was the instigator, as is the case here?

I found it strange that the OP's friend seems to have preemptively dismissed OP's son's version of events so it will be viewed as "mud slinging"

I found it strange that the OP's friend seems to have preemptively dismissed OP's son's version of events so it will be viewed as "mud slinging" hmm

So do I. Which makes me wonder if what she's telling them is a hell of a lot worse than what she told me.

The whole thing is shocking & confusing.

Of course, she did say she never wanted my DS around her DD again, so maybe telling everyone first is her way of ensuring this.

It sounds like she may know her daughter is over sexualised and makes sure she gets in first so everyone thinks her daughter is the victim not the perpetrator. The mums reaction to this happening twice would ring alarm bells to me. Its is perfectly normal for children to explore but it sounds to me like her daughter may be mimicking behaviour.

Many years ago my female friend and I used to play hospitals. She was doctor. I was nurse and we made her little brother be the patient. We used to undress him and look at his "bits". It's all normal OP. It's no consolation but it's your friend with the problem and lack of understanding of child development. Try not to make a big thing of it with your son and move on. I feel angry for you and your son .

Is there no way you can find out what she's told other people?

Is there no way you can find out what she's told other people?

I asked. It's really just a close knit group of 4 of us. I was told it was a private matter and to stop mudslinging. I don't see how defending my DS is mudslinging.
She's always been the "Queen B" of the group and if they turned away from her then a lot of the social plans would disappear.

Can you find out exactly what happened in the park last year? Maybe talk to that boys mum?

www.brook.org.uk/our-work/category/sexual-behaviours-traffic-light-tool

I have only read the first page so I am not sure if someone has linked this.

The jist of the traffic light tool is that similar age behaviour amongst children is normal curiousity, whilst it is age differences which are red flags.

So to that extent, it could all be normal. However, as a parent, I would be questioning what the child who instigated it had been exposed to, because it goes beyond exploring of difference. There may be nothing, but it does no harm to rule it out.

Beyond that, the PANTS rule all around. It may be innocent childhood play, but if the children don’t learn it is wrong, then it leaves them vulnerable to adults doing it.

If you have concerns then I would approach your country’s equivalent of social services, who will be able to speak to both families and the school if necessary.

FWIW, my DS was abused by a close male relative and it was his behaviour which gave it away (fortunately not around other children). However, I remember when DD was being subjected to unwanted hugs by an older boy, I complained about this (privately, of course).

Just to add youarenotkiddingme I think the view that only girls can be victims is dangerous, and I am not sure it is true. Many of the historic child abuse cases coming out involved male children.

I don’t think this is a child abuse case as described as they are the same age playing. But as previous posters have said, the risk is that the child who instigated it has been exposed to something inappropriate (and hopefully not worse).

Can you find out exactly what happened in the park last year? Maybe talk to that boys mum?

From what I remember the boy was touching her private areas and holding her down and rubbing himself on her. No, I don't think she even knew the boys mum's name. She just stopped going to that park.

It may be innocent childhood play, but if the children don’t learn it is wrong, then it leaves them vulnerable to adults doing it.

We've spoken to both DS and DD many times about private parts and who and Honestly, other than an interest in how his erect willy can seemingly move up and down on it's own, he's never shown an interest in other kids private parts, so perhaps we weren't as vigilant as we should have been.

Are you in the US? If you are then I'd consult a lawyer, tell school and cut yourself off from these 'friends' preemptively. The damage is done and it sounds like she is spreading stories about your DS that are utterly defamatory. The damage is done. From what you say of her it is unlikely that she will ever see what she's done is wrong.

I can kind of see where she is coming from but she really has gone too far. Fuck her, quite frankly. You need to to protect your DS.