Kids caught "playing doctor" other mum furious

[Isthisnormalfor6yearolds]

So I'm horribly confused & frightened now and not sure what to do. My DC's (DS 6, DD 4) spent the day at my DF's house with her two DD's (also 6 & 4). They've all been friends since they were babies, so we're very excited. When I picked them up, all seemed normal. Well a few hours later, my DF calls and tells me that she caught her eldest DD & my DS in the bathroom touching each other. She said she heard my DS ask her DD to lie down and open her legs, and he touched her vagina. He also had his pants off. Apprantely they were laughing and giggling. (When I asked DS & DD later, DS said friends DD asked him to take his pants down first, DD confirms this, and that the two 4 year olds we're opening the door and thought it was all very funny).

DF finished telling me what happened and said she now has to think of her daughter and that my son is no longer allowed near her, and that we can no longer be friends.

I'm in shock. Part of me thinks, that while inappropriate, this whole thing is nothing more than normal childhood doctor. But her reaction has me looking up psychologists for my DS, who has never done anything like this before, as far as I know!

I've been googling signs of sexual abuse but he doesn't fit any of those.

I'm scared and upset 😟 and I don't know who is overreacting.

Obviously not the main issue here, but this has shown you that your friends are no such thing. To disinvite a child based purely on the word of another child and their adult, and then to not allow any other view, is hideous behaviour. Long term you'll be better off without them.

Long term you'll be better off without them.

Yes. I'm feeling awfully lonely now though. Thank goodness for Mumsnet, I'd think I'd have gone mad today if I hadn't posted on here.

I would worry that the DD has been victim to someone. Perhaps the boy in the park was traumatic for her? Or an adult around her has been abusing her.

If it does get to lawyers, hopefully the state will look into that.

The worry is she'll try it again if the other 2 Mums have sons?

Iyour DS must be very confused.

I looked at traffic light system and I would've been red 9 - 13 and 13 - 17 which is a bit distressing 😞

Like another op said try to distract DS. If this woman behaves this way and her daughter behaves so inappropriately, you are both likely better off without.

The worry is she'll try it again if the other 2 Mums have sons?

They do. I warned them to keep their guard up. That was my parting goodbye to them.

The more I'm thinking of it, the more I'm seeing a long pattern of overtly mature behavior on her DD's part, and I guess I just shrugged it off because we were friends and it was relatively harmless. I won't be doing that again.

This sounds like a living nightmare. Small community, abroad, false accusations, people taking sides. I fear there will be no way to get out of this unscathed.

Honestly, right now I would be taking the high road. Protect your kids, yourself and your DH and do what’s in your best interests. If that means losing your friends, so be it.

I would contact the school preemptively, tell them what has happened (the incident itself, not the social drama) and that the only reason you’re contacting them about something that happened outside of school is because DS may manifest inexplicable behaviour to them (upset, worry etc). Be very clear about what your DC have told you. Don’t gossip, don’t talk about “and if she approaches you pls don’t believe her etc”. They can work that out themselves if they are bothered; the main thing is your DS stays stable at school.

As for your group of friends, leave them to it. If they’re prepared to believe the queen bee over your word which you haven’t even had a chance to explain, it shows them for what they are. Know that it’s only a matter of time before they too are on the receiving end of something. Carve your own path, leave them to each other.

I don’t know what use a lawyer would be in this situation. Frankly I think an appropriately timed, steely, tiger mom “you ever do anything to even remotely affect either of my children again, you will find the matter taken out of my hands and into official hands” might be enough.

From what little you’ve said of this woman - overbearing dickhead arrogant DH, she quick to jump to conclusions, DD possibly exposed to more mature behaviour than you’d consider normal in your world - it’s possible the Home life is not a-ok. There’s something not quite right there. I would be wary in any event.

The incident in the park sounds troubling, I too would have been upset as the girl’s mum. But I still would not have jumped to conclusions about this incident and have done anything re the party (she’s moved way too fast, even though I’m sure she started the conversation with the host along the “I don’t think we can come on Sunday”, “why not?”, “well xyz happened”, “oh but queen bee that’s not your fault! Why should you decline! I need you to remain in my social circle! You come and I’ll uninvite other friend” lines).

Gosh I do feel for you. What a terrible situation. I’m glad you and DH are on the same page and can stand firm together to protect your kids.

I don’t know what use a lawyer would be in this situation.

Beyond that I take my son being accused of molesting someone very seriously, in the country we're in spreading rumors/gossiping is actually illegal and taken very seriously.

It might be best to tell school from perspective of girl as instigator and your son may be upset or confused and that way you head off her biased view.

It might be best to tell school from perspective of girl as instigator and your son may be upset or confused and that way you head off her biased view.

I've a meeting with the lawyer tomorrow afternoon, we will see what she advises in regards to the school. I'm quite friendly with DS's teacher, and she's let me know before at the beginning of the year when an older boy was bullying him (pushing & shoving, nothing sexual), so I think she would let me know if DS seems upset.

Name change fail OP!!

Yes, I've asked for MN to fix it!

*[Message from MNHQ - we've fixed this now]

Glad it's been changed for you.

OP- have you named changed?

Namechange fail MissSusanSays.

Thanks Mumsnet!

I was about to say the same about this child's maturity. I think she's Sen or heard something and is acting out.

Good luck

Her reaction makes me a bit suspicious to be honest.I wonder if there is something else worrying her

I remember doing this with my boy cousin (cringe) when we were little and my aunt caught us. It wasnt anything sexual at such a young age we were just checking out our differences.

The incident in the park with the older boy sounds quite serious tbh.

Did the girl's parents take any action about that, do you know?

Because if they didn't or it wasn't resolved, it does explain why the mother has been carrying around a huge load of guilt and blame, looking for another person to dump it on.

Did the girl's parents take any action about that, do you know?

Not that I know of no.

I think you are doing all the right things.
I would be worried about this little girl.
Your priority is to protect your son.
The husband sounds like a bully.

Talk to the lawyer first, but I would be in favour of sending a letter to the parents with your version of the events. Invite no discussion but memorialize what you want to say & then say all correspondence should go through your lawyer.

It's interesting that the responses here have been almost unanimous (I think maybe there was one at the beginning that was different?). Keep that in mind OP if you're feeling wobbly, because it's a rare thing online!

Do you have friends from your DS' school that you could make friends with, as an extra support network?

That don't know this "queen bee" iyswim if she has girls and I think you said he goes to a boys school

Do you have any "native" friends, (hopefully there isn't a language barrier) as in not in the tiny expat community?

Just trying to think of ways that you can get new friends that aren't "under her spell"

I remember playing doctors with my friend around this age, my friend instigated it all 😳 Her mum found us and sent me home. I didn't realise but her mum really told her off, said she was disgusting etc. We lost contact after, which I now realise her mum made happen. We met up again 25 years later and became good friends which is when she told me about how she had been made to feel over it, she had felt guilty ever since and apologised to me! I honestly had barely given the whole thing another thought and was mortified that my friend had carried the guilt around with her all those years. I had just assumed it was completely normal, which this thread has shown to be true.
Anyway, in this case you need to protect your son. I think a solicitors letter is needed. Also, is there someone you can refer to as I would be concerned for the DD and whether she has/is experiencing something that is causing her to behave this way.
I'm so sorry your friends didn't even hear you out, stay strong for your son.

Beyond that I take my son being accused of molesting someone very seriously, in the country we're in spreading rumors/gossiping is actually illegal and taken very seriously.

Of course it’s serious if someone has accused your son of molestation, goes without saying. But has the other Mum actually done this; I mean, has she said outright to anyone other than you that he molested (actually, molested) her DC, in a way that you might say to Social Services in the UK, or to a school? Is it a formal complaint? At this stage, it sounds like murky, nasty mud-slinging (to use her own words). Mud-slinging is also very harmful, especially this sort of mud, and I’m by no means minimising. I’m saying (as a lawyer myself, probably not in your jurisdiction and certainly not in this field) that the legal analysis will need to be clear.

I’d be interested to know how and where gossiping may be illegal, I suspect you may mean slander or equivalent. Again, the tests are likely to be strict.

Whatever, see what the lawyer says tomorrow because it’s good to be armed. But I always, always caution friends and family against legal recourse in matters involving these kinds of issues unless we’re in the criminal realm. If you follow through - which is often (but not always) the aim - very frequently you end up doing your own self more harm than good, let alone the other party. You may end up “winning”, but the cost very very often outweighs that. Be clear about what you want to achieve. You want her to retract her accusation? A threatening letter from a lawyer may be like a red rag to a bull for a woman married to an arrogant tosser. Sure, you don’t bow down to bullies, but you’d be cornering yourself into going further down legal avenues to deal with their response. It gets ugly. There may be other means to get her to do this. Sometimes, non-legal avenues are best. Sometimes (although instinct tells me not in your case) doing nothing is best. Sometimes, going on a non-legal offensive is best.

She’s put you and your family in an awful position with her own ignorance and idiotic behaviour. Calculate the actual harm that’s been done to your DS and focus on that. The rest is just noise; don’t give her more headspace than she deserves.

God this is horrible, what a bitch your ex friend is

Calmly chatted to DS again tonight. Brought the whole thing up slowly while chatting after reading his bedtime story. He says he didn't ask her to lay down, and they never touched each other. He says he had to pee and she was in the toilet and wouldn't leave so he went to pee, and then she told him to show her his willy, then he asked to see her vagina. Then the 4 year olds came in giggling and they all started laughing and he started shouting "bum bum" and making fart noises.

I'm not saying this is true. But for a 6 year old it seemed genuine. Or I'm raising a serial killer who's and incredibly accomplished liar already.