Should I tell my daughter she has a half sister? (title edited by MNHQ)

[tedrekasta]

I have an English daughter aged 32. She has 2 children.

Shamefully, I had an affair 6 years ago with a Polish woman who I met abroad whilst working which (accidentally) resulted in another daughter. She lives in Poland with her mother (and elder Polish half sister).

I have never told my English daughter about her half sister in Poland.

Historically, my English daughter always yearned for a sister and my wife and I regret not having any more children. We are in our 60's. I am 68.

I have to tell terrible lies to both my wife and my English daughter in order to go and visit my daughter in Poland. Which I do about every 2 months.

I miss my Polish daughter, now 5, very much. But I love my English daughter so much and don't want to hurt her. And I love my wife very much and don't want to hurt her.

I just don't know what to do.

Should I tell my English daughter that she has a very young half sister living in Poland?

I am deeply upset and ashamed of myself. But want the best for my wife, my English daughter and my Polish daughter.

I would love any advice. Especially from anyone who has been through such a situation or similar situation.

Thank you for any help.

The only 'legal route' you need is to establish if she is actually your daughter.

If not, all of this uncertainty ends here and you can pick up the pieces and carry on with what's left of your marriage. You need never tell your English daughter.

If the dna proves that she is yours then you should pay towards her upkeep regardless of what your wife wants because it's what the child deserves and is entitled to.

Access could be sorted through the courts if that's what you decide you want.

It all starts with the legal confirmation that she is actually yours. Until you know that, you cannot proceed.

But it looks like you are going to stick your head in the sand and do nothing because that's the easiest thing for you to do and it's what you've always done.

You're not special in that regard Ted. Millions of men abandon their children around the world and just hope that 'the state' or someone else will step in to support the families they have left.

If it makes you feel better to imagine that some other man is paying to raise your daughter, then fine, you get on and tell yourself that whilst you're weeping into the bottle.

If it makes you feel better to imagine that some other man is paying to raise your daughter

There could be some bloke in Poland who has been in this position for the last 5 years...

I would just say to the OP: keep in the forefront of your mind that the people on this thread are all different people offering different advice.

You sometimes tend to respond to what seems to be the 'average' of the advice you're being offered, when sometimes that's just one poster posting many times.

Does that make sense? If you can see the posters as individuals, rather than as a mass, a swarm, you can distinguish more clearly who appears to be offering advice out of experience, or empathy; and who is just chatting voyeristically on an internet forum.

Does that make sense?

A spreadsheet might be helpful too.

Going back to the beginning, has the Polish mother ever explained why she targeted you randomly to have sex with?

Even if I did have a DNA test and it proved I am the father (highly likely in my opinion) then I am still stuck with having to take the mother to court to get some rights to see my daughter. And as I said I don't want to be unkind to the Polish mother.

Regarding payments I have ALWAYS paid my monthly maintenance payments. And intend to carry on doing so. If the Polish mother will not take the money then I shall try sending it via the relative I know. Failing that I shall put it in a deposit account every month for her until she hopefully asks for it. I have certainly not expected the state to step in and pay for her. That is both untrue and unkind.

Thank you WestleyandButtockup and Fairenuff. You both make good points.

So what are you going to do, Ted? Are you going to push for a visit with the aim of getting a sample for a DNA test whilst you're there?

When you say "until she hopefully asks for it", do you mean in the hope that the little girl eventually asks for it, or that her mother does?

I cannot imagine the Polish mother ever wanting to contact me again.

So, I can only hope that one day my Polish daughter will want to contact me. Though if her mother will not tell her my name then I suppose she will never be able to find me :(

As for pushing for a DNA test I cannot see how. If the Polish mother wants nothing to do with me then that is that. There is no way of even visiting if she has said no more contact. I must do as she asks obviously.

No Ted, obviously not.

Actually, you don't. I'm sure there are legal avenues in Poland to pursue court ordered visits. You really need to stop painting yourself as a victim-martyr. You can't do XX because of your wife. You can't do YY because of the Polish Mum. And in all of this you are forgetting the true victims in all of this: both of your daughters.

The one thing that shines through is that, for all of your protestations, you do not love your daughters enough. You love them when it's convenient to do so. I've known men who have pretty much walked through fire to see their children. They've spent thousands, traveled far, and subjected themselves to abuse and humiliation, and walked away from other relationships in order to see their children. These men aren't anything 'special'. They are ordinary men. They possess no superpowers. But the one thing they do have is a deep, abiding love for their children. A love and responsibility they put above all else. It's a pity you don't have that same love for yours.

I do t know if you saw my post the other day, but has the Polish lady ever explained why she randomly chose you, a complete stranger, to have sex with that night?

Acrossthepond55

What exactly do you expect me to do?

You find it easy to criticise me but you don't actually say what you think I should do. Or what you would do in my situation.

Clearly I CANNOT just arrive at her door in Poland and demand to seem my daughter. That would probably land me in jail. And destroy any chance of ever seeing my daughter again.

You say you've known men 'They've spent thousands, traveled far, and subjected themselves to abuse and humiliation, and walked away from other relationships in order to see their children'.

I'm happy to spend what money I have. I am happy to travel to Poland. But what can I do when I get there?

I would honestly love to know what you are suggesting I should do.

First off, you should tell your wife that you have a responsibility to your PD (Polish Daughter) and that you will not abide by her restrictions. You resume your relationship (or attempt to) as it was before this whole debacle. If your wife leaves, that's her choice. A parent should always choose their young child's wellbeing over that of a spouse. It's what a parent does.

Secondly, if you have doubts about your PD's paternity and/or want to secure her rights to have a relationship with you, you hire a Polish attorney and pursue it through the Polish courts. I'm sure there are family courts in Poland and you probably won't be the first non-Polish citizen to use them.

Thirdly, you tell your ED (English Daughter) that she has a sister.

I've expressed these views much earlier in the thread.

Clearly I CANNOT just arrive at her door in Poland and demand to seem my daughter. That would probably land me in jail. And destroy any chance of ever seeing my daughter again

This is pure hyperbole on your part and I expect this is how you convince yourself to that dropping your poor PD is the 'only thing' you can do.

Hi Ted. Have been thinking of your situation. I'm sorry things haven't got any easier, for any of you.

If I were you I would speak to a lawyer based in the UK with experience of the Polish legal system, to enquire how to best obtain a DNA test. If you google, you should find someone.

Keep strong and best of luck.

Loads of people have told you what to do Ted. They just haven't given you the one suggestion that you are looking for which is to do nothing.

Take legal advice on how to establish whether or not you are the child's father.

That's the first step. It's not hard. It's a phone call. What's the problem?

You said you already had a DNA test involving samples from all three of you? But if there is any reason to doubt this, I presume it is because the mother sent it off so you are not 100% sure they were the genuine samples.

However, you must have received the results - was it in Polish? Did you get it translated? Did you look into the legitimacy of the lab/company?

Anyway, here's an idea - ask the same lab that performed the test to compare a new sample from you with the previous sample submitted as the "father" in the 1st DNA test. Either they are identical, or not. Only consent from you is required, as the 1st one was submitted with your consent (believing it to be your own sample). No further sample from your daughter required.

When you die, your wife and English daughter will find out about your polish daughter in the will.

That will be shocking, on top of grieving they will have that to deal with, and so many unanswered questions.

Tell them now, deal with the fallout and try to repair things together. Your daughters deserve the chance to meet each other.

@NotHotDogMum RTFT

ProsccoBitch. That made me laugh.

Today I spoke to a lawyer who suggested that even if I win visitation rights they are often difficult to implement if the parent with custody of the child doesn't want visits. He also told me about ICACU.

I also spoke to an international charity that deal in similar situations to this. They explained that there are visitation rights. And that article 21 of the Hague Convention. May help me. Though it again comes back to how willing the Polish mother will be for me to visit.

One thing the charity suggested was mediation. And apparently they have been quite successful with this. They basically phone the mother and try to negotiate visitation rights and how they would work. They either hire a translator or some of their personnel are fluent in some languages.

I found the idea of mediation the most appealing. It doesn't seem so aggressive as going to court. And it gets a neutral person to discuss the matter with the Polish mother. Which would be a lot easier for her than me or a lawyer I suspect.

Anyway, thanks again everyone. Good evening.

I was just about to post when I saw your previous one, OP. I work in law in a European country and yes, you can almost certainly oblige the mother to take a DNA test.

Before you go for mediation or visitation Ted, you need to establish that she is in fact your daughter. Did you ask about how you can go about doing that?

Well done for making the call. Things are much better when faced head on. It seems scary to start with but can be worse if you just leave it to fester (as you have found out for yourself).

So, you see? There are things that you can do. And even if you aren't completely successful, do you realize how much it will mean to your PD down the line to know that you loved her enough to fight to see her?

Thanks yousignup. That's helpful. Though I don't want to make the mother even more fed up with me.

Fairenuff. I slightly think that I won't get permission from the mother for a DNA test unless I go via mediation first.

Anyway. Let's see

I agree with you, Ted on this one thing at least - that a second DNA test is not the priority right now.

You believe this little girl is your daughter. Her mother says she is your daughter. The first DNA test indicates she is your daughter. Biology and timing suggest in all probability that she is your daughter. (The fact that her mother says she no longer wants your money points to the fact that this is not a scam.)

So, for now take it as read. She's your daughter. You want to see her. You need to liaise with her mother to make this happen.

So what exactly has happened that has pissed her off so much that she has decided that she doesn't want anything to do with you? It's got to be something fairly major. I'd ask her and look at that area first.