Should I tell my daughter she has a half sister? (title edited by MNHQ)

[tedrekasta]

I have an English daughter aged 32. She has 2 children.

Shamefully, I had an affair 6 years ago with a Polish woman who I met abroad whilst working which (accidentally) resulted in another daughter. She lives in Poland with her mother (and elder Polish half sister).

I have never told my English daughter about her half sister in Poland.

Historically, my English daughter always yearned for a sister and my wife and I regret not having any more children. We are in our 60's. I am 68.

I have to tell terrible lies to both my wife and my English daughter in order to go and visit my daughter in Poland. Which I do about every 2 months.

I miss my Polish daughter, now 5, very much. But I love my English daughter so much and don't want to hurt her. And I love my wife very much and don't want to hurt her.

I just don't know what to do.

Should I tell my English daughter that she has a very young half sister living in Poland?

I am deeply upset and ashamed of myself. But want the best for my wife, my English daughter and my Polish daughter.

I would love any advice. Especially from anyone who has been through such a situation or similar situation.

Thank you for any help.

It's OK, Ted, you don't owe anyone here anything, no need to apologise.

Sorry things are looking complicated and not in as good a way as you might have hoped.

Making no excuses for what happened in Poland, but reading through the lines, it doesn't sound as if you were in the happiest of marriages. and you sound as if you have allowed a lot of compromise in your life in order to gain some love. Sometimes a big painful change opens up new possibilities.

I hope you are OK. Take care of yourself even as you try to take care of the other parties in this situation.

Ted, you never owe anyone here a reply, it is your life not a spectator sport for others. If you choose not to post any further if you have the answers to your questions/support you need then you don't have to. But if it will help with more advise then keep doing so.

I agree you don't owe anybody the outcome but maybe typing it out will help. So I kind of hope you come back.

Ted we just wanted to know you are alive and ok, which it seems you are. If you wish to keep the details private please do so, there is no need to share unless you want to.

I agree with the others Ted. Don't type out the outcome because you think you owe it to the people on the thread.

If you need to talk this through, then there are people here who are happy to support you but this is not Eastenders and you have no obligation to resolve the "cliffhanger" if you would rather keep it private.

I'm sure it's been a difficult few days, I hope you've had some real life support, I also hope that you realize that despite making a hurtful mistake, you are still entitled to happiness and you should not be giving up on your polish daughter in order to pay penance for your "crime".

What you did was unthinking, selfish and destructive but it was not malicious or cruelly intended. It wasn't planned and you've been "firefighting" ever since. Mostly to protect yourself but you have also tried to do right by others too - all this does not make you a bad person and you don't deserve to be crucified for it.

Hi Ted! I hope you're OK. You've had quite a roasting on here, probably not surprisingly, but at least it sounds like it has helped you move through things a bit. I'm hoping that this might be a new start for you. You're not that bullied little kid anymore and the truth is out! Maybe you could start making loving choices instead of fearful ones?? You will need to give your wife time but please, don't abandon your little girl.

As awful as it must feel at the moment, there's actually nothing new or unusual about your situation. I was a young teenager when I was told I have a half-brother. I freaked out! Threw my toys out of the proverbial pram! But I eventually calmed down and I'm certainly glad I know. For me, it was the deception which was the hardest to recover from and the way it was handled. Try to think ahead about how others might be feeling. You're a grown man and it's just not good enough to keep playing the same 'I'm weak' or whatever, card. Your wife and daughter are going to be really upset and you're going to be in the firing line. That's how it is and as an adult you need to face that and also stand up for your little girl's right to know her dad.

In the future, your daughter might be very glad to have a sister. In truth, families are ever-evolving and you can never have enough loved ones in the world. I hope these thoughts bring you some comfort.

Good luck with everything.

Hi Ted what the others have said.

No idea why my last post on this thread was deleted, OP wondered what my username was and I briefly explained

Anyway OP I still hope everything works out for you

Hello everyone and thank you all so much for your kind and supportive words. I can't explain how much they mean to me. Thanks.

And now I want to explain everything but can't, or at least it's all so complicated and unresolved (is there such a word?)?

I shall try and explain but it's difficult and rather disjointed. Because that is how it is and we still haven't fully resolved things.

My wife and her sister arrived for my infamous 'high tea' armed with a document for me to sign! (But in the end I didn't sign).

The key points were:

1 I don't tell anyone, including our English daughter, about my Polish daughter.
2 That I close my personal bank account and let my wife deal with all financial matters relating to my Polish daughter - maintenance etc.
3 That I shall not visit my Polish daughter in Poland with her mother present - my wife, as some of you correctly guessed, believed that I was still having sex with the Polish mother. Nothing could be further from the truth.
4 That if my Polish daughter were to visit me in England by herself or with some shaperone that would be ok, provided the shaperone was not her mother.
5 That my wife and I would not 'sleep' together for the near future - as we don't sleep together anyway this seemed slightly strange.
6 That I reduce maintenance payments to half and pay the other half to our English daughter on the grounds of 'fairness' and to help our English daughter financially.
7 ALL communications with the Polish mother and my daughter must go through my wife who would read all emails before forwarding them on to Poland. And likewise for the emails back from Poland.
8 If I have video calls with my Polish daughter then my wife must be present in the room but out of view of the camera.
9 I should reinforce with my boss at work that I do not want to be sent to Poland again.
10 That we should get another DNA test done, provided the Polish mother agrees.

There were some more but less important points.

Again as you all predicted my wife was angry and hurt. And had every right to be so. I apologised a lot. A lot. And seeing he so unhappy was terrible. Really heart wrenching. I felt so ashamed.

So, she shouted at me quite a lot. Mostly accusing me of being stupid -fair point. And accusing me of only having sex with the Polish woman because I was too ugly for anyone else to want me - again a fair point. Though rather humiliating. And that I was egotistical because I wanted to go around bragging that I had had sex with a woman in her forties. (not at all true).

But then she was really really angry with the Polish woman. And that caused me huge moral problems. I could see why she would be angry with her but it takes two to tango and my wife almost wanted to believe the entire thing was the fault of the Polish woman. This put me in a terrible moral dilemma. Because, it wasn't totally true. I had willingly been seduced by the Polish woman. I didn't put up much of a fight. So, I wanted to defend the Polish woman! But that would be the road to hell as far as my relationship with my wife was concerned. So, shamefully, and cowardly, I said nothing in her defence.

So, a lot of the afternoon and evening was taken up with the above. Incidentally, good job I made an absolutely massive high tea. Everything was eaten by the time we finished talking at about 2am the next day.

Going through the points.

1 I really feel that we should tell our English daughter. But my wife has said, literally, that this is a red line for her. And that she would definitely divorce me if I didn't concede this point. Her reason - which I can understand - is that she feels humiliated. And she doesn't want everyone to know that she is - in her own words - an ugly old woman who has a husband who has run off with an attractive much younger woman.
We still haven't resolved this point. But it seems that my wife is going to win this one. I feel for her. Because I can understand how she sees it. Of course, it is not the truth and I would never want to live or love or have sex with the Polish woman ever again in my entire life. But I cannot persuade my wife of that. Which is understandable. I don't know how I can deal with not telling our English daughter though.....

2 I agreed to close my bank account.

5 Agreed. Though we don't sleep together anyway.

7 Agreed. My wife can read all the emails. I have nothing to hide.

8 I agreed. I had a short video call with my Polish daughter yesterday whilst my wife sat on the other side of the camera. It was fine. Basically my Polish daughter was doing some drawing and we talked a little bit in English - she is having some English lessons now and so she knows a few words.

10 The Polish mother hasn't been asked yet about another DNA test. I felt that with everything else it was too much all at once. Though I am still sure it is my daughter.

6 I argued that this was totally unreasonable. Eventually, we compromised. The maintenance payments will be reduced to 75% and the remaining 25% will go to our English daughter. I am not at all happy about this. But the only way to realistically negotiate is for both sides to comrpomise. A knock on effect is that I had to then write an email to the Polish mother - via my wife. The Polish mother went completely crazy about the whole thing. And, strangely, she said that she had been waiting years for me to 'be a man' and go and live with her in Poland together with our daughter. I didn't tell her that the last person on the planet I would ever live with would be her! But I explained clearly that I would never live with her. All of these conversations were by email censored by my wife in the new regime. So, a bit strange.

3 Which for me is the biggest point, has not been resolved. I desperately want to see my Polish daughter and what my wife is proposing is not workable. I can see why she doesn't want me to meet the Polish mother. And I would be happy to comply with such a regime. But it's just not possible to implement. The Polish mother is strongly against any arrangement that doesn't involve her being present at any meetings with our Polish daughter. Many many hours have been spent on trying to resolve this. And it just seems completely impossible to solve. I should add that my wife never wants to meet the Polish woman or even see a photo of her.
So this is still not solved. And I find it totally miserable.

4 Just not workable in reality. Plus the Polish mother will not hear of our daughter travelling on a flight to England without her. It's also wrapped up with point 3. So again not resolved.

9 We compromised in that I would say this to my boss and see if I can find a way forward in the company without me going to Poland so often. Again I wasnt't happy about this. And I don't think it will happen in reality so I am not going to make a fuss. The company needs me to go to Poland so I cannot see them changing that.

In conclusion:
The Polish mother is extremely unhappy about me caving in to the various points.
My wife is prepared to stay living with me if we can resolve 3 and 4. Otherwise she wants a divorce. I'm not sure we can resolve them. But I don't want a divorce.

Currently, I am absolutely exhausted. I haven't had much proper sleep because the sister in law has occupied one of the bedrooms and so I am sleeping on the sofa. Also, work has been unbelievably busy.

Also I feel miserable and ashamed. I also feel that I have betrayed my English daughter, my Polish daughter and the Polish mother.

I can fully understand where my wife is coming from. But we don't seem able to find a workable way forward for the key points. And I am just really really tired of talking about it all. After exhausting days at work I just want to sit down and have a beer and not have another painful and upsetting conversation with my wife.

The above is not well put together. The whole thing was much more traumatic than it sounds like. And deeply deeply depressing. And on top of it all I desperately miss my Polish daughter. She was so sweet on the (brief) video call.

Good god man, don't let them discover that in your will! You can't leave them with so many questions unanswered. The fact is that - given your will - your wife and daughter will almost definitely know at some point. Given that, I'd say the sooner the better.

Sorry sorry. Should've read the whole thread.

It's very early days. I think there may be some room to relax a couple of the points if/ when you've managed to restore some trust.

Remember though that your wife's grief will not be linear. Expect a lot of peaks and troughs.

Ted, you've 'betrayed' all the women in your life, not just three of them. But I think you know that.

1. Your wife forbids you to tell your daughter not for the sake of your daughter's happiness or mental health, but for her own selfish reasons (pride and vanity). As a responsible parent, I would never agree to this. If your wife had pleaded your daughter's mental health or fear of this 'wrecking' her life, I guess I'd try to think about it and see if I agreed. But to not tell your daughter because of your wife's vanity, that's just morally wrong. And since I put my children ahead of myself, I would tell my spouse that if they wanted to divorce me because I wouldn't agree to it, so be it.

#6 is wrong. Your daughter had the benefit of your entire income during the years she was a child, let's say birth - 21 to allow for help during college (so 21 years) . Your younger daughter will have the same benefit during the same period in her life (0 - 21), possibly an even shorter time since you are in your 60s and at some point may retire and no longer have enough income to send the current amount, or you may possibly even die before she is 21 and she may receive no support at all, because you may be sure that your wife will either force you to change your will once it occurs to her to ask about it, or she will contest it, tying it up in court for as long as she can. As to whether or not the amount you send is excessive, I don't know. You may possibly want to run figures on the CMS computer system and see what you would be required to pay by law in the UK. I'm not saying you should pay the bare minimum, but if you are paying the mother's entire household expenses due to the amount you are paying, your wife may have a valid reason to want you to reduce your payments, but not because it's 'unfair' to the other daughter. She's already received 'child maintenance' from you, as it were, in the form of living in and supporting the home she grew up in.

9. If this would in any way jeopardize your job, affect your work reputation, or put more work on your peers, I would NOT mention this to my employer. You don't bring your personal problems to work, and you don't ask for special accommodations because of them.

Really good points

But I do feel like you need to give things time before you contest them. I think you stand to lose everything if not.

*It's very early days. I think there may be some room to relax a couple of the points if/ when you've managed to restore some trust.

Remember though that your wife's grief will not be linear. Expect a lot of peaks and troughs.*

This.

Don't expect too much too soon of your wife. I think it's brilliant you've finally been honest. It won't be easy on anyone but it's better than delaying the inevitable which you were doing before.

I hope things continue to progress and that the little girl is taken care of.

Oh Ted. It does sound hard. But it's so early. You all need to give yourselves time.

I think you're being brave, by the way. And strong. You said before that you don't think you're either of those things, but look - you've done the thing you were most afraid of, and you're coping. Still breathing, still living.

Wishing you much more strength along the way.

Give it a bit.

God this thread has me wanting to beat my head against a wall at some point and cry at others...Total rollercoaster.

Look, I'm 35. My dad's 56. If I found out he'd done this I would probably be literally murderous with rage for a bit. I'd be so, so angry with him and so upset for my mother. BUT I would still (at least I think I would) care about the welfare of my tiny sister. And eventually I would want to speak to my dad again...He's still my dad and he's been a good one.

Something I think you have to understand is how most women (all the ones I know, anyway) feel about their husbands fathering other children through affairs. It's literally one of my biggest fears, though I know (as much as you ever can) that DH has not cheated on me and isn't likely to.

For one thing men can create children so much longer than women can and it happens so often...Men have affairs or leave their wives and then they start this whole new family. Their first wives are the ones who went through the young lean worried years with them and now here they are, older with more patience and more money and they've got a brand new family to reap the benefits of what the first wife helped built, and she's years or decades too old to do the same. Can you feel at all what a betrayal that is? I'm sure there's some biological impulse behind it (knowing that offspring that are not yours will have a share in your mate's good etc) but mostly it just fucking feels terrible. I put myself in your wife's place for a minute and thought how I would feel if my husband did what you've done, thirty years in the future. I actually felt physically ill.

At some point you're going to have to tell your English daughter. She will find out. There's just not a way around that. She will sense something and go digging, or someone will slip up, or something.

The other thing is, this just isn't about you. It's not. YOU screwed up. YOU are the guilty party here and you don't get to make decisions based on the best outcome for YOU. You need to do the right thing and of that leads to a lonely life, well... that's the price you will have to pay.

This is not your wife's fault. This is not Polish woman's fault. (Of course it's shitty to sleep with married men but she owes your wife nothing. YOU DID.) And you know, this talk of affairs you've been doing annoys the shit out of me to be frank. People who are not stereotypically attractive are under as much call to be decent people as gorgeous humans are. You make a promise to someone, you don't break it whether you look like Jason Momoa or Danny Devito.

I don't WANT you to lead a lonely life and I understand that people make mistakes and I understand how long lasting childhood trauma can be. But you can't make decisions based on the best outcome for YOURSELF any longer. You forfeited that right. You need to think of your daughters and then your wife.

Ted

1. Whilst I fully understand why your wife doesn't want her to know, you must tell your daughter. Why go through all you have been through, the stress to yourself, upsetting your wife, changing the terms and conditions for your daughter in Poland etc to not do the one thing this thread was about in the first place which was to tell your daughter and not keep living a lie. Plus you will ALL (including your wife) have to go through this all over again when you eventually tell her. Because it will come out, she'll pick up that something is going on at home plus I expect your daughter will be even more angry to find out her mum knew and she didn't. It is best for everyone to rip the plaster off in one go than do it in stages. Your wife is going to have to understand that your daughter has a right to know as much as she did and that this is not just about her feelings but everyone involved.

3/4/9 - again whilst I understand why your wife is asking for these, they are just not practical requests and can't be agreed to. Your wife's trust has been broken and she is asking for these as she doesn't trust you. But doing these things will not bring that trust back. You could break her trust with anyone at anytime, here or in Poland. Trust is the biggest issue to get over with infidelity but it's something she'll have to do gradually with the current terms in place if you are to stay together. You give her access to all communication with yourself and woman/ child in Poland but you still need to visit your polish daughter at least whilst she is so young.

6). I don't believe it was necessary or reasonable to change the financial situation unless your daughter is particularly desperate for money or you are paying way over the odds. All you are doing is paying to bring up your second daughter, money that your first daughter had invested in her, just as pp said. Presumably this change has been implemented already though.

I'm sure you are aware that even if you were to agree to all your wife's conditions, it won't be a magic cure to your relationship and she may still decide to much has changed/can't trust you and want a divorce anyway so be careful what you give in to.

You've done 50 per cent of the hard part but still need to tell your daughter too.

Oh Ted. Well done. Of course you feel emotional and exhausted.

Your wife is angry, and as I said, embarrassed and humiliated- that's why she doesn't want your eldest daughter to know. That's also why she made the "strange" demand about not sleeping together- she doesn't want her sister to know you no longer have a physical relationship.

Don't agree to tell work. Your personal life is not their problem.

Don't reduce payments FOR A DEPENDENT MINOR to give money to AN INDEPENDENT ADULT. Please don't. How will anyone explain why you're suddenly giving your grown-up daughter cash if you can't tell her about your Polish daughter?

Your wife doesn't want a divorce. You don't want a divorce. You want to tell your eldest daughter and continue to see and support your Polish daughter. If your wife can't agree to those things, then you both need to get divorced, and it will all come out anyway.

I have every sympathy for your wife's feelings, but she is asking unreasonable things, which are morally dodgy (in my opinion).

I'm sorry if I have missed this. I have read the thread I promise. Why don't you just get divorced OP? I know it's easy to say but everything will be out in the open, fresh start and not living together in misery. An authentic life where your little daughter is treated with dignity and fairness. Even if you come to some sort of agreement over all those conditions, that's no sort of life for you or your wife.

I agree with the others that it will be toughest at the start. Let your wife digest the shock before you try and re-negotiate any rules. Maybe some will end up relaxed anyway without you having to push for it, just because you agreed to them right away.

Re the no sex rule, although you say that you weren't sleeping together anyway so it was "strange" to include that rule, obviously to lessen your wife's humiliation I think you should act like this is a rule that saddens you, and a rule that you would like to see relaxed in time.

By the way, do you speak Polish? if not, have you tried duolingo.com? You can learn polish for free on Duolingo.

I bet six months from now, your wife will be ready to consider telling your daughter. She just needs to be a step ahead of your daughter's shock. I get that.

Spot on *eightieth - yes, a really strange inclusion and I think that's exactly how you need to act.

Ted, break free, your life is a lie.