What is more beneficial for children... A SAHP or 2 working parents and childcare?

[Candlefairy101]

Hi, I'm not trying to start a debut I am just generally interested in people opinions on the subject.

I have been both a SAHP and a mum working full time. With my youngest I have decided to stay at home but with my oldest I worked full time and he spent a lot of time at nursery. I still feel guilt about this (I don't know why I feel guilty about all those nursery hours just so I could finish my degree) because 1) he can't remember it and 2) he has a mum with a career.

BUT now with my youngest I have decided to stay at home and wonder how/if my children will be effected by each decision and difference growing up lifestyle.

How do mum AND dads feel about this subject also DADS do you like the idea of you wife/ partner being at home with the children?

mY mum when growing up was always a SAHP and then did a 360* turn and worked all the hours under the sun (her choose she didn't have to), I was sad because I always felt comfort at school or out playing that she was always at home, always on standby if you know what I mean?

Love to here everyone's opinion x

Melt you can't legislate for every little thing, however I don't see me radically changing my view on careers. Even if I hadn't had children yet I still didn't want to work full time.

The thread was derailed because people got upset over a comment I made which was actually in retort to SAHM being called "a drain". Funny how none of the WOHP got upset about that isn't it.

In an ideal world it would be nice to work half or a couple of days and spend half with dc as then you could get a good mix. But totally depends on what you can afford to do, plus think if me of dh stayed at home 24/7 might be grumpy from no adult company etc so would probably be in a better frame of mind if we have a few days working.

Im pregnant with first so just speculating ideas here so dong know if this would be case in real life!

It's silly.

No it isn;t silly.
It's very normal.
Most people hesitate to be so dogmatic in their opinions on something they haven;t yet experienced.
And I am slightly at your assertion now that "selfish" wasn't meant to be judgemental.

Kew, I don't feel you have to have experienced something to have a strong opinion. You can base opinions on other things that aren't experience

It wasn't meant to be judgemental. I'm very blunt and perhaps it came over as insulting but it wasn't meant

"my kids are older snd I'm older so I know better than you". It's silly.

Actually no, it isn't always silly. Experience is precious and perhaps when you've had a bit more of it you'll see that! It isn't being older that makes you "better" but never having experienced being a parent really does diminish your ability to comment. Of course you don't have to be a politician to discuss politics but I probably wouldn't enter into a discussion with someone who couldn't name a politician. Or with likes/dislikes- I wouldn't say I didn't like a food I'd never tried!

Nicky, I'm not saying experience isn't valuable. But it's not the only thing you use to form an opinion

Jassy only if you let it. Some people will think that I'm selfish for having s child early for example. I don't find that insulting at all. It's only insulting if you start bullying people about it. Just having an opinion that disagrees with someone's choices isn't insulting.

Do you really think that? It's nonsensical. If I expressed the opinion 'stay at home mothers only do it because they are lazy, unambitious and subservient' that would be insulting to them. (I emphasise - I don't think any of those things, at all.)

The thing is, in this case you're not disagreeing with someone's choices. You're commenting on your view of the motivation behind those choices, and your value judgement of those choices.

Under your model, nothing anyone says about another person or group of people can be insulting unless the recipient chooses to be insulted. It's a way of avoiding responsibility for one's own statements - 'it's just my opinion! It's not an insult unless you choose to be insulted by it!'

Jassy if someone asked your views and you said that I don't think it's particularly insulting. I'm sure people would disagree and explain THEIR reasons for doing it, which would also be fine.

I do think reading it back saying they're selfish was a bad word choice. I don't think they're intrinsically selfish people, just that that particular decision is often made out of a selfish reason. I don't think that makes them bad people or inferior. So I should have said "I think the decision is selfish" instead of "I think they're selfish", because reading it back, the latter does sound like a judgement on the person and that wasn't what I meant

I actually said sahm become a drain once children go to school

And my opinion is that you may be a drain and selfish by having a baby when you have no means to provide for it. You don't have your own home, job or even a partner with a home and job.

Then you have the gall to criticise working mothers who are providing a home and sustaining economic independence for being selfish by not spending more time at home. How ironic!

I suggest you come back when you're proper grown up. get your own life in order instead of preaching to me from your parents sofa (that they paid for ) about raising my children.

You are being incredibly irresponsible and instead of saying you 're going to work flat out to finish your education and get a job you're 'taking a year out' like it's your bloody gap year!

Hahaha who's being judgemental now?

If my family are happy to provide for me and my son why is that anything to do with you exactly? And I merely gave my opinion which is what the thread asked for. If you dislike someone not agreeing with your choices then why read it?

Proper grown up? The I'm older I know better argument again. That's a really shitty thing to do, I've been a "proper grown up" for years. Your personal standards don't define adulthood.

So my son is going to be born in August, you honestly expect me to go to a full time degree in September, barely a month after the birth? And to put a 4 week old baby in childcare?

Lashes I think I'm younger than you and even I think you're being so bloody naive.

Jorah that's fine. You can think that. It doesn't affect my life what random strangers think, so by all means think I'm naive.

I do object to being told I'm somehow a bad mother for not palming my son off and jumping to tomorrow's 9am lecture however

Yes I am judging you. You can't even meet the basic needs of your child by yourself at the moment but see fit to wax lyrical about it being selfish to work when that precious 'time' could be spent! Brilliant idea....let's all stay at home with our parents and home educate! Oh wait....there's a bit of a flaw here if we all did that!

Who will be feeding, clothing and providing a roof over your child's head? You???? The government?

And yes I do expect you to finish your degree and get moving into employment and would certainly be encouraging my daughter to do the same should it arise.

A child needs their physiological needs meeting first, then security and stability (see maslows hierachy of need).....you need that in place.

Who cares if it's by myself? Don't know about you but in my family we support each other. My child's needs will be met perfectly fine, thanks.

I'm not relying on anyone other than my own family, agsin how is that any concern of yours? If a family is happy to operate in a particular way, it's quite frankly no one else's business.

How nice for you. My mum told me to take the time to enjoy and spend with my son as its time you can't get back. Pretty sick and disgusting you'd want a baby to be without its mum to be honest, just because you feel that having a career exerts moral superiority somehow.

And his needs will be met. I already mentioned earlier that my parents are pretty well off, so if you're imagining he'll go without you're very mistaken. He won't want for anything

I don't think anyone on here has said that their careers give them "moral superiority". You, however have called people selfish for working for things which you yourself are being given.

Jassy if someone asked your views and you said that I don't think it's particularly insulting. I'm sure people would disagree and explain THEIR reasons for doing it, which would also be fine.

Well, no, you weren't asked about what you think about the choices and behaviour of parents who work full time. The thread was about what was most beneficial for children - fine. There's a debate to be had, lots of evidence, much of it conflicting.

But once you start commenting on people's behaviours and choices ('the decision is selfish') or motivations ('love your career as much as you love your children'), yes, that's insulting to the people you're talking to who have made those choices. Sometimes insults are true. Sometimes they're solicited. It doesn't change the fact they're insults.

It's quite a cowardly tactic not to be willing to acknowledge and back your own statements, and pretend that (a) you are not attaching a value judgement to the choices of others and that (b) you did not intend to denigrate the choices of others.

Nicky, I do think I should have said I felt the decision was selfish rather than saying they were selfish. I wasn't trying to offend the person, but I do think I worded it in a way that sounds like an attack and it wasn't my intention to do that

My parents are pretty well off too...guess why? They worked for it. Didn't mean I sponged off them when I was a young mum.

Anyhow, I actually need to return to work before collecting my children from afterschool clubs selfish bastard that I am

If I wanted to argue with children I'd go and get them earlier!

Jassy

I don't see how I could give my opinion on this without commenting on the choice of others? I could say that "I think having a parent at home is beneficial" but it doesn't elaborate on anything.

The love your career more than your children line was rude, it was in response to "if you can't fathom that some people love their careers, then..." Which was a sarcastic insult. Funny how you don't mind people insulting me but the minute I say anything back im the bad guy.

I'm not being cowardly, it was honestly not my intention to offend and I didn't think it was a judgemental comment. Obviously people feel judged and consider it one. That's not how I meant it

Connie it's not "sponging" when it's a decided family set up.

Good for you, and don't call me w child when you're the one who can't debate without name calling and insults.

Another thing to consider is that we care for children as they are humans with rights.
As are older people/parents. They've worked and saved so they will be ok come retirement or if their health failed.
So saying it's ok because your parents can help ... ok ... but there are moral questions/issues of selfishness therein too.

They raised you. If anything as they age you should be looking out for them not having them fund your idealised idea of motherhood.
It's very easy to take advantage of a mothers kindness - even as an adult.
You may feel you have the morals just right regarding your child, but at some point either you or your DP working and supporting your family would be the kind thing to do for the older generation.

Human beings are human beings.
Mums aren't selfless robots (though society expects them to be) with no feelings.
And a mum who has worked bloody hard all her life to support and raise her kids might want to do the best by her grandkids but shouldn't be expected to bankroll them forever.

Squizita I agree with you. My parents support me while I'm studying. The funny thing is that's no different to a lot of students, no one moans about that. I don't drink, smoke and party like most "typical students" yet no one moans about them living off their parents. Yet because I've got a child suddenly I'm scrounging, being selfish, and so on.

I really don't see the difference

A decided family set up

So you sat your parents down and said - hey, even though I 'm in the middle of my degree and have no place of my own, no job and don't even live with my boyfriend(who also has no job or home) I want to have a baby and for us to live at home with you! Hooray

What a great example of adult decision making

Connie I already lived at home. And no actually, when I found out I was pregnant, myself and my parents discussed what would work best for us. Like reasonable adults

The point is, you are firm in your belief sahp are preferable to both WOH. Your DP doesn't live with you.
Therefore it sounds likr the full expense of child rearing PLUS your studies is going to fall at your parents door - much more costly and long term than 3 years at uni.

Most parents expect to pay for their child to do all the things kids do, from dolls and rattles to first cars and beers at uni or college. It's not selfish because it's the expected cost of your child and you don't mind. It's not considered selfish as it's a fun thing young adults do before they settle down (and choosing not to do it doesn't automatically make one mature).

But what you as a parent don't expect to 'sign up for' iyswim is another 18-21 years of sleepless nights, paying for a child etc on top of that.
And older people do become infirm eventually, and taking them for granted is taking away time they may have been looking forward to for a long time (this doesn't mean they don't love their kids but they expect them to move out, get a job, then have kids usually).

A couple of my friends have had unplanned families while at uni or in their young 20s. They may have loved to be sahp but they didn't because they felt it would be taking advantage /selfish for their parents - who of course would always give, give, give. They decided to make the tough choice not to take (except one who now, 15 years later, has her widowed mum living with her and pays for her as she is so grateful).

I'm just trying to balance out this idea there's a moral "high ground" in terms of not being selfish/giving family members a less than perfect life if you use your parents to do that for your child.
It's not awful at all, but it does have its own moral dilemmas which you don't seem to engage with.