What is more beneficial for children... A SAHP or 2 working parents and childcare?

[Candlefairy101]

Hi, I'm not trying to start a debut I am just generally interested in people opinions on the subject.

I have been both a SAHP and a mum working full time. With my youngest I have decided to stay at home but with my oldest I worked full time and he spent a lot of time at nursery. I still feel guilt about this (I don't know why I feel guilty about all those nursery hours just so I could finish my degree) because 1) he can't remember it and 2) he has a mum with a career.

BUT now with my youngest I have decided to stay at home and wonder how/if my children will be effected by each decision and difference growing up lifestyle.

How do mum AND dads feel about this subject also DADS do you like the idea of you wife/ partner being at home with the children?

mY mum when growing up was always a SAHP and then did a 360* turn and worked all the hours under the sun (her choose she didn't have to), I was sad because I always felt comfort at school or out playing that she was always at home, always on standby if you know what I mean?

Love to here everyone's opinion x

[drinkscabinet]

I don't think either of the options in the OP are ideal.

If one parent is at home then they are sacrificing financial independence which is too much to give up. What happens if the WOHP dies or leaves? A friend's mother was widowed in her early 40s having not worked since she had children in her early 20s, she never escaped poverty. Her daughter has always worked despite 'not needing to', I think that tells you everything. A SAHP also puts all the pressure on the WOHP to support the family financially and denies them the chance to spend a lot of time with the kids. I don't think it's fair on either parent.

If two parents are WOHP it's fairer to each of the parents but if both are in full on careers (or just need to work all hours to make ends meet) then neither gets to spend much time with their kids.

Ideally we'd live in a world where employers are more accepting of parents (and indeed others with responsibilities outside of work) working less than FT I do think more fathers need to start asking for PT work and I really think most jobs are possible to do PT unless it's a job that requires you to be away from home for long periods of time (I'm thinking army, navy etc). Otherwise with a bit of empathy and imagination employers should be able to accommodate other demands on your time but they choose not to because it's generally woman who ask for flexibility and are treated like bad employees because of it.

[Momagain1]

It varies by so many variables. Including time. It takes 16-18 years, sometimes a bit more, to produce a functioning adult. A lot can happen. If you have multiple kids, you will be at the job even longer. My grandmother was raising children from 1939 to 1978. My mother and father had a child under their roof from 1963 to 1998. i have been parenting since 1984 and have nearly another decade to go.

in all liklihood, unless you live an unusually stable and consistently funded life, any and all work/family arrangements will be used at some time. All of them will be fine, unless you wreck yourself with guilt and resentment over it, which can't help but effect your parenting.

Whats best for children, assuming adequate parents and adequate childcare, is whatever suits the family's needs at the time.

[LashesandLipstick]

Elizabeth I agree you can't do everything - I won't be EBF due to a medical condition for example. However a lot of points of AP I feel very strongly about. I felt like this before I found it - I've always had similar ideas and later found AP and realised others did too

[ElizabethG81]

Yes, parenting styles come into play, and the fact is that you won't know yours until you actually have a child.

Some things that I have done with my children would be classed as AP - extended breast feeding, co-sleeping. Yet I also work and my children very happily go to nursery. It's very simplistic to choose a parenting style when you are pregnant and do everything according to that style. In my experience, most parents have a very pix and mix approach, and most people who practice AP are not even aware that that is considered to be a parenting style.

[LashesandLipstick]

Elizabeth yes that's true, and it does factor in it but I understand that just because I didn't enjoy something doesn't mean my children won't.

I think parenting styles come into play here too - I'm planning on basing a lot of mine on AP, whereas others do it differently

[ElizabethG81]

Lashes, you've mentioned previously in the thread that your own experience of nursery wasn't good and you were taken out. You've also talked about other issues and anxieties you have, or had in the past - e.g. being convinced your parents were going to die, etc. (apologies if I have confused you with someone else's post, the thread is very long now). I think that this factors in to your opinions on child care.

[LashesandLipstick]

Hillingdon I'm saying financially the costs are similar. Obviously not everyone is as lucky.

Elizabeth, even with the nurseries mentioned I still wouldn't want my child there regularly, and that's my choice. I'm not the only one who feels like that, my mum has the same views on nurseries and childcare, as do some of my friends with kids. Obviously some people like it and it works for them. Great. Others do not. It's not to do with my own issues - why is it an "issue" that id prefer to look after him myself rather than letting someone else?

Nicky, doing things at a similar time each day is fine, I just worry if he gets too rigid with anything he'll find it hard when something changes.

[NickyEds]

My son won't have a routine anyway as the days he's with grandparents will vary, as will my schedule, as will his dad's - so I'm not sure how "helpful" that would be to him.

Ha ha! You might not get a choice. I never needed a routine (no nursery to think about) but most parents just find that by the time their kids get to 12 months they just need feeding/napping at around the same time every day and "varying their schedule" every day will just land you with a very grumpy baby. Again you seem to have a slightly idealised view of how it's going to be.
You need to look around some nurseries- some really aren't the little boot camps you seem to think.

[ElizabethG81]

Children do need a routine - by this, I certainly don't mean a "Gina Ford routine". I mean, as someone else has outlined above, simply knowing what to expect and what happens next - e.g. I go to nursery, and after such and such happens, mummy/daddy picks me up.

Lashes, I think your issues with child care are completely down to your own anxieties. You are really going to need to try and work on it so that your child can be relaxed and happy. Find a good nursery - I've personally not seen one that does the things you're worried about. My own children's nursery is very flexible and will adapt things to each child's needs, and that has also been the experience of my friends who have children in nursery.

[Hillingdon]

Lashes - sorry, having flicked through this thread you come across as self obsessed and somewhat entitled. You seem to think your parents will see no difference between funding your degree and having a baby. You are spouting off rubbish about being able to work part time, work the hours you want and don't even have a job. Your partner is also a student and doesn't even live with you.

Yet, you critiise all of us working parents and look down on us for working.

In some countries you wouldn't have all these perceived options.

[GingerDoodle]

There's no easy answer as it depends of your circumstances. For me/us childcare was going to cost more than I would bring home - there was no point having a child we would never see and bring home no money. So I quit and now work from. I think children benefit in different ways from different circumstances. For example; nursery lends itself to rules akin to school / deal with being in a group etc. Also they have to get used to being tired in the afternoon. My mini hates group things and gas don't for some time but we go to London a lot and her fabourite places are museums - something I couldn't do if I worked full time. Also mine does not nap so we do dinner at 4 and she can be in bed at 5.30 - again just not possible if she was in nursery as I wouldn't get home till 7.

[LocatingLocatingLocating]

I had a job that was part time and flexible. Then it became full time and inflexible as a result of restructuring/cuts.
It happens, and to think that everyone has the opportunity to work in a halfway decent job, on a pt flexible basis, is hugely naive.
I spent a lot of effort and thought positioning myself for pt\flexible\decent salary. I achieved my ideal for 8years, but life changes, and now I'm working 40+ hours pw as is DH. DC appear to be surviving!

[puffinrock]

We both work full time and just look after all our children between us.

[HazleNutt]

Personally I'd rather have the time than the extra cash - people were saying that not all careers offer flexibility. You can't just work as much as you need - in my job, yes I earn more than strictly necessary, but it's full time or nothing. And if you choose nothing, who is going to pay the mortgage? Honestly, most parents working full time are not doing it because we hate our children.

[JassyRadlett]

A good one won't - quite the opposite. Hopefully you'll find one that's a good fit.

[LashesandLipstick]

Jassy nothing in particular as such, I just have very strong views in that I want my son to have a childhood free from a lot of societal pressures and to grow and develop at his own pace. I worry that a nursery would be very regimented and uniform and stamp out/criticise/undermine his individuality. I have similar concerns about schools. I feel organisations try to fit people into boxes.

[LashesandLipstick]

This is making me think perhaps the nurseries I've known have been particularly bad. Several friends have had problems with nurseries for the reasons I mentioned above and it really put me off. I'm hoping ones like you two have mentioned aren't hard to find

[JassyRadlett]

Jorah that's what I'm on about when I say I don't like organised childcare. The taking over thing, forcing kids into routines that don't fit them, confusing them with strange rules that undermine me and DP and so on. Your nursery sounds much better! If I can find one like that I'd feel a lot better about it.

A good childcare setting won't do those things. What are you concerned about them undermining you on?

[JassyRadlett]

If you find a good nursery, I don't think you'll have too much to worry about on that front.

Yes, this - I didn't mean a Gina Ford-esque routine (definitely not for us) but rather predictability of expectations for small kids.

DS's nursery is very child-led, especially for the babies. The only thing 'set' is mealtimes -the same as in most homes.

[LashesandLipstick]

Jorah that's what I'm on about when I say I don't like organised childcare. The taking over thing, forcing kids into routines that don't fit them, confusing them with strange rules that undermine me and DP and so on. Your nursery sounds much better! If I can find one like that I'd feel a lot better about it.

[jorahmormont]

If you can find a really good nursery, the worries aren't as big. I was lucky, the nursery on my university campus is brand new and the best in the area, really child-centric. I'd seen others that were total 'I'll be your mummy while mummy is working', and I hated that. This one was very much, we're looking after you but mummy and daddy are number one.

Ours is great and lets parents visit whenever, but also you can call at any time of the day to check up, and they don't get annoyed. If you can find one like that, you're well in. DD is forever coming home with cards for us for every little occasion, and everything is so focused on her and her routine, rather than forcing her into a routine with other babies - we told them that basically she has no routine (we just worked better as parents and as a family without one), and they were fine, they just go along with when she wants to sleep, when she wants food, when she needs a nappy change. They are so good at keeping track of each child's routine (or lack thereof).

If you find a good nursery, I don't think you'll have too much to worry about on that front.

[LashesandLipstick]

Jassy - but then he'd miss out on family time with both of us at the weekend. So I don't know if that would be better.

I understand your point. I haven't decided how I feel on "routine" for kids yet. A lot of people think it's great, I'm not so sure. That's not to say I disagree, merely I'm undecided. The regimented nature of it I wonder if it makes things harder - if you get used to a routine, surely you'll find it difficult when change happens? My son won't have a routine anyway as the days he's with grandparents will vary, as will my schedule, as will his dad's - so I'm not sure how "helpful" that would be to him. I can see pros and cons for both. I'm hoping that he'll only be there for one day a week anyway.

[JassyRadlett]

Jassy - how would weekend work give me more time?

It wouldn't - but it's not about you, is it? It's about your child. If your partner has a conventional Monday-Friday job, and you work PT shifts including weekends, your child will get more parental time - not just maternal time,

Both of you - that worries me sad I dislike the idea of nursery in general and if I couldn't see him in between I like that even less. I don't like someone else doing the "parent" role and I'm not a fan of the set up of organised childcare. I'll have to look into other options

A lot of us feel that way, especially at first, but that's the thing about being a parent - you often have to put your own feelings aside and focus on what's best for your child. If you're leaving your child in any regular childcare, including grandparents, it's important for them to feel secure and settled, for them to have a predictable routine. If they are unsure when mummy or daddy is coming back, or whether mummy and daddy are going to come in then go again at unpredictable times, it's going to be very tough for them to settle and form happy, secure attachments to their key person or people.

Instead, you help them. You recognise that if you're going to work, even part time, it is in their best interests to form good attachments to carers in high-quality childcare arrangements (whether it be nursery, childminder, nanny, whatever) regardless of how distasteful or unappealing it may feel to the child's parents.

It's really important, though, to separate out 'caring' from 'parenting'. I think the difference can only become clear as you're doing one or the other.

It's rubbish sometimes, especially if you're nearby. I work from home quite regularly on DS's nursery days, and sometimes, especially when he was smaller, I've passed and just ached to go in and give him a hug. But I would have been satisfying my need to the detriment of his.

Instead, he knows that when mummy or daddy drop him off, he is going to stay and play at nursery until one of us picks him up, and then we go home together. Always. He knows this almost always happens shortly after tea. And he knows that mummy and daddy always come back.

[cerealqueen]

I've done both - worked part time with 1 DC, enjoyed the balance.

SAHM to 2 young DC, some of the hardest time of my life, to be frank.

Then contemplating return to work as we needed the money...and I'm a childminder. I just want to be with my kids, I don't want somebody else getting all their stories and funny times and worries.

My decisions, my choices, in consultation with DP. I have friends who cannot believe the well paid career I gave up. Worth it, for me.

[LashesandLipstick]

Yellow that's not true. My mum works part time in a job that requires a degree.There are several jobs that offer that flexibility. My particular career offers it. Not all careers do.

Jassy - how would weekend work give me more time?

Both of you - that worries me :( I dislike the idea of nursery in general and if I couldn't see him in between I like that even less. I don't like someone else doing the "parent" role and I'm not a fan of the set up of organised childcare. I'll have to look into other options