how long would you let a 2.5yo cry?

[babybrainache]

Dd1 has been crying / whining for last hour because I told her she couldn't watch Peppa pig after ignoring me when I asked her to do something. I've told her she can watch it if she says sorry but she simply refuses and carries on crying. When do I crack and put on the tv?

Agreed.

No one is considering why these children are behaving like this. I think it's because they are having trouble expressing that they feel bad for some reason. Often I think it is due to pain - teething being a big one. Mine is getting his second molars at the moment and as far as I can tell, it bloody hurts.

Yes he has moments when he is very loud and shouts and cries, most children of this age do and how you respond matters. He can be irrational; you have to try and ride it and not get into a fight. That's the point of being their parent - you don't fight them when clearly they are smaller than you and can't control themselves.

He doesn't know it's pain, or that it will go away. He's just unhappy. S he screams.

Leaving him to it or locking him in a room is not the option I'd favour, distraction works very often, also picking him up and taking him into another room or showing him something exciting - or if all else fails, just sitting with him or near him till he decides to play peekaboo instead of crying, or wants to do something else.

Children can get themselves out of tantrums if you're just prepared to wait with them. Turning it into combat - though it is easy to perceive it as their 'attacking' you with their screams and kicks - isn't needed.

I didn't understand this with child 1 but by child 3 it's so much easier because I know what doesn't work, what makes things worse, and above all, that responding considerately to their needs doesn't make me weak and doesn't mean they will take over the world and destroy the house. Or become spoiled.

I don't blame people for taking other sorts of action as you do feel horribly threatened by a screaming child, that's normal. It's just having the confidence to be the bigger person and not let it rile you. Once you have it, it's easy. But you have to believe in it.

Good luck.

Also I don't think you are an awful parent Fatty, I criticised what you did as I felt it deserved to be thought about in more depth - if a child cries for four hours, it means something is wrong. It may be sadness or teething pain or whatever - but being pretty much pre verbal, kids this age can't tell us. They don't just cry for no reason. They really don't. Crying in itself is painful. And I care about this because I cried for hours in bed as a small child and no one came, and it only taught me that no one could deal with my feelings. It didn't solve anything, as I wasn't being difficult on purpose.

So I can kind of see it from the child's angle and it upsets me to read about people letting them cry without further investigation as to what might be causing it. It also upsets me to hear parents say something was heartbreaking but they did it anyway - from the parent's point of view, that's horrible to go through.

It's so unnecessary, You have motherly instincts for a reason so don't ignore them.

Just my thoughts.

Very wise and kind thoughts Patter As I said upthread we are the adults we have (or should have) the ability to reason not to 'go into one' like a child who due to biology (brain development) is unable to reason.

I didn't just ignore my motherly instincts. we have been over and over this. it worked for me. doesn't mean it will work for you, doesn't mean you have to agree. does mean I was able to nip the not wanting to go to bed in the bud effectively.

I know thats what was up because I did try to find another reason. he also told me that was what was up.

he cried
no harm done.
I did not leave him like that every night. it was once. Four years ago.

if a child strops then sometimes they are just stropping. you have your ways of doing things I have mine.

"No one is considering why these children are acting like this." Wow, that came from a special patronising place! " I think it's because they feel bad for some reason." Ya reckon?? What an insight.

I think we have all given our children's behaviour, and the reasons for it, some long hard thought.

Every time my DD cries isn't because of pain, I no the difference in her behaviour and he cries and when she tantrums it's because she wants a specific Thing and can't have it at that moment in time like when im cooking dinner and the ovens open and I can't get her peppa on Right that minute then a massive tantrum follows so there's no way I'm going to put it on for her an teach her tantrum straight away and mummy gives you what you want

But everyone has different ways and means of doing there own thing and I don't think anyone's wrong if it works for them and there child

It also helps if you manage your time carefully Another e.g. I used to put Peppa Pig on BEFORE I started cooking the tea. Give 'em an apple and a beaker of water or whatever and stick 'em in front of the telly or DVD first Tantrum avoided .

ok then...what would happen if peppa finished before tea had finished cooking?

tantrum!

I understand what you are saying about time management but not everyone dumps their children in front of the tv as a way to keep them quiet. this again comes down to personal choice and different parenting styles

Yeah it probably did sound a bit patronising. Sorry.

IME many children are far more likely to get irrationally upset when they're hungry or thirsty and tired of course (or all 3 ). Adults do as well! But under 3s tend to forget they can't talk and just make a fuss that's why a snack is important.

I certainly didn't look after angels but my dcs and mindees didn't tantrum much, if at all.

nor did my DS and when he did and I knew he was tantrumming (is that even a real word? I doubt it but hey ho) for nothing I let the stubborn little bugger cry it out. yes it took four hours and yes I laugh about it now, because it is not a regular occurrence and he can be bloody stubborn.

Still not getting why it's funny. But each to their own.

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread so may have missed something.

I'm a very instinctive parent, though do instil boundaries when needed. If ds (4) is angry, screaming, rude tantrumming he gets time out to calm down in his room alone as there's just no talking to him. I let him know that when he's calm enough to talk to I can understand him to come and find me. If he's crying in a more sad/ upset way at the injustice then he gets a cuddle until he calms down and then a brief explanation of why I've done what I've done, but reiterate that I will not change my mind. Last night we had a similar thing over him demanding sweets and TV. We were calmly unrelenting, he got time out minutes added every time he stuck his tongue out at us or shouted. When he realised his behaviour was getting him nowhere I suggested he make paper aeroplanes with daddy instead (and made him say sorry) which worked fine.

This works fine with a 4yo who has better understanding but when ds was 2.5 i was probably a bit softer and used more distraction methods - though was still consistent about boundaries.

Meant to say you can offer comfort without backing down.

you don't need to understand my sense of humour. maybe it's because you had a stressful time as a child. I don't know. all.i know is that I think it's funny my son is so stubborn and doesn't realise he gets it from me!

of course there can be comfort and boundaries at the same time. but sometimes they cry and are inconsolable and there is nothing you can do about that.

anyways happy parenting everyone. each to their own and all that. off to deal with my demon daughter

My DS is 2.5 and we had started to get into stand-offs about saying sorry, he is quite bitey/scratchy so I really thought it was important alongside other efforts to manage his behaviour but he absolutely wouldn't. Like you I felt I couldn't back down as it would risk giving a very bad message.

The stand-offs were just horrible and upsetting for us both and after an awful morning when I had to get to work and get him to the cm and we both ended up in tears, I took some advice from a MNer and started saying he could say sorry or have a 'sorry cuddle'. It diffused things so much, he would always opt for the sorry cuddle and then we could move on. Now 'sorry' as a concept is becoming less of a massive deal for him and sometimes he will say it as well as give the cuddle.

Four hours. That is appalling.

You say it was a one off? So ores unable your son always went to bed we previously . You weren't at the nd of your tether after months of fighting going to bed. Nope, it was a one off. Like we all, even as adults, have one offs. When we are not in the mood for something that is a usual part of our routine or perhaps feeling a bit listless, or not feeling 100%. Yes you ploughed on regardless, despite fact that this was a one off, you listened to your three year old crying for four hours. And you have done and will do to this post, spout some defensive nonsense, but the fact remains that was utterly shite parenting. Four hours. And it was a one off. Your poor little boy.

* you don't need to understand my sense of humour. maybe it's because you had a stressful time as a child*

Note, perfectly happy childhood here. Just angry that you think it's funny that you left a three year old to cry for four hours. I'm not in the minority. Quite the opposite in fact. Doesn't that make you think that maybe you were wrong to do this?

You needed to do that because there are rules in society and he needed to understand that fact?? Oh come on!

Enjoyingmycoffee. Seriously. Get over yourself. I work with abused children. Threads like these make a mockery of actual neglect and truly terrible parenting.

Four hours being left to cry?! And you think that that is something completely acceptable? I'm not saying that social services would be interested, I'm not saying that it is up there with child neglect, but I am saying it is pretty crappy parenting. The poster says it was a one off, that's what gets me. If it was a pattern of bad bedtimes then I totally get that something drastic, like prolonged crying, might be necessary. But this was a bloody one off

I realise it's not the worst example of parenting there is - people do horrific things to children and think nothing of it. I was more concerned that someone who is a truly shite parent might see it and use it to justify to themselves having done similar, though not just once, and without the context of love and nurture that this poster's children presumably have.

We must, MUST be aware that we are writing on a public platform and that people will use anything such as that to try and justify or normalise or MINIMISE their own terrible parenting.

So I am glad that it was picked up on.

I have no idea on the circumstances. I do know that when my sister was three she threw a four hour tantrum. My mum left her to cry. There was nothing else to be done. She was crying because she wanted to go and buy some crisps. That was literally it.

I blame 'special snowflake' syndrome for a lot of this. There is the most enormous difference between leaving a child to cry who is in pain or starving, and simply letting your child get on with its tantrum. Believe it or not kids can sometimes be manipulative little sods. A tantrum is not always indicative of them 'hurting'.

We are creating a generation of entitled narcissists with this attitude, frankly.

Children require love and affection. They also require rules, boundaries and discipline.