The problem with my daughter's Muslim school friends - or rather their parents

[Jules2]

I wonder if anyone else has experienced/is experiencing this problem. My 10-year-old daughter goes to a Haringey junior school with a fairly high number of Muslim children - the make up approx. 50% of her class of 28. Her group of friends in school are mostly Muslim girls. But unfortunately (with a couple of very occasional exceptions) these poor girls do not seem to be allowed to mix with non-Muslims outside of school hours. Over the years, invitations to come to our house to play, or come to parties have been rejected with many an implausible excuse. My DD has gone to maybe a couple of parties held by her friends in 5+ years of school. Weekends are taken up with Islamic school for the most part - or they stay at home. They are not allowed to go to the cinema, swimming or whatever with non-Muslims. I find it incredibly frustrating and annoying to see my daughter upset because she is unable to socialise with these girls outside of school. She doesn't understand why - and neither do I really. The school is fond of billing itself as a multicultural, inclusive school but the message doesn't seem to have gotten through to this section of the population. I'm afraid I have started to believe that if immigrants to this country - from any racial or religious background - do not want their children to mix with children from other ethnic/religious backgrounds (including British-born children), then maybe they have chosen the wrong country to come and live in. (My DD is half Chinese, by the way - but born here.) I'd be happy to hear from some Muslim parents with a different attitude - I hope there are some out there.

Maybe they can tell you are a tiny bit of a UKIP persuasion and steer clear OP

^that

It's great that we all live in a country where we are all allowed to spend our leisure time how we like, even if other people would rather we weren't doing what we like, isn't it

I don't think the op's post is derogatory in the slightest. I grew up in a town where I was the ethic minority (I am white british born) and was the only white and / or english child in the school (and know there were none after me for many years due to connections to the school).

I was fortunate in that the mainly asian (hindu and sikh) community were incredibly welcoming but can easily see how it could have swung the other way.

I believe that if the only excuse for not allowing a friendship to blossom is religion then something is wrong. Parents should not force their isolation upon their children.

If it was nearly every Smith family in the country, then the problem might be with you, Arabella

I am a Muslim immigrant and my daughters enjoy play dates with their friends. However, I think that there is a problem with non-integration which leads to identity crises and alienation of youth. As a Muslim I am ashamed of people perpetrating atrocities in the name of Islam and I think the best way to not supply more recruits to these horrible organisations is to somehow create a society where people treat each other as equals. At a loss how to bring that about though.

HadmyTwo fantastic post! I would imagine your post represents the majority of muslims. Sadly, like you, i don't know how to make that happen. I think now more than ever we should be making effort on both sides to learn more about our neighbours. I am embarrassed to say i know very little about Islam. I do live in a predominantly white area though. (not really an excuse is it)

The media has a lot to answer for. It has the power to do much good. But instead chooses to spread fear and ignorance. If there was a documentary explaining islam in an accessible and easy to follow way i for one would watch it.

As far as the op goes. I don't know. My dd does stuff with us at the weekends. We like it that way so weare one of the SMITHS i guess. I don't know any kids who do otherwise. Im calling racist goady fucker on the OP. She never did comeback did she.

Hi OP. I think people are giving you a hard time on here. I have a number of Muslim relatives, and I know one of their concerns is the kids accidentally eating non-halal food. I asked one of my dd's school friends to tea, and the mum seemed a bit hesitant until I explained I'd be serving veggie pizza and that the kids' cousins were Muslim and I frequently catered for them - then she was fine. My dd and ds also frequently go on playdates with another Muslim friend. The parents of another close friend of dd's though have never responded to party invitations, and I have been ever so slightly offended by that. Have recently found out from dd that this friend doesn't go to parties because her mum doesn't know where party places are etc., and will allow her to go if she is picked up and dropped off - so I will offer that next time as I know this girl's friendship is important to dd. But I know there ARE also people that don't like their kids socialising with people of a different religion (or at least this is what kids report) - and, IMO, that is just bigoted and wrong.

Of course people who don't let their kids mix with Muslim children are bigoted and wrong! And I would never tell someone who thought their kids were being left out on grounds of their parents' origin, religion, sexual orientation etc. to 'suck it up'. But that doesn't make bigotry from Muslims ok - any more than bigotry from Christians, Jews or atheists. As HadMyTwo points out, segregation doesn't generally have happy results. (Think Northern Ireland....). It's clear from the responses of Muslim MNetters on this thread (and from my own experience) that there are many Muslims who also think this way.

Taking the post at face value, I'm assuming OP does want her daughter to have play dates with her Muslim friends because she reported extending invitations to them?

The fact that OP hasn't come back makes me think she IS a GF. However dd is experiencing this and it has caused a lot of unhappiness. She and her friend were very close, best friends, presents back from Hols that kind of thing. Dd asks her a play date, no she can't come, ok. Week later best friend goes on play date to other class mate who is also Muslim, so dd asks again and is told "I can't come to your house, you're not Muslim". Same for dd's birthday party. That party was a whole class party everyone came apart from two girls and one boy who are Muslim.

On the flip side though another of her friends is also Muslim and they have regular play dates so it's not a uniform thing. This family is Muslim from India though, so I wonder if the country they're from can sometimes contribute to these attitudes? The one who won't come is from Somalia.

The OP may not have had good intentions but I do think this is a useful discussion having been affected by it and I have found it really useful.

Nicki, I don't think it's because you're not muslim. It's more likely that the parents know the other parents (who are coincidentally muslim), and therefore probably feel more comfortable and at ease sending them over there. Just as you would feel more comfortable sending your children to your friends house. Maybe the key here is to reach out more to the parents, if at all possible.

I have a multiple allergy DC and I would feel much much more comfortable her going to a household where they understand allergies. It's a bit like that.

Also, muslim families tend to be very close knit and spend most of the weekend socialising with family as well as some attend classes too. My muslim friends spend most of their weekends at their mums or inlaws, having lots of fun and food!

Nan, I had no idea RSVP meant you were supposed to reply. I just learnt that from MN. The culture that I come from which is probably similar to your muslim parents in question, you never reply to invitation cards.

As a parent id be angry about this its basically racism.

happy dd was told, "my Mum says I am only allowed to go to Muslim houses and parties".

How can it be anything other than not being Muslim?

And the other Muslim child who she was allowed to play date with arrived relatively recently, in Year 2, around 6 months ago, while dd and her friend have been friends since reception.

I agree OP is at best a goady fucker.

Nicki, would you send your DD to someone's house you knew absolutely nothing about? I personally wouldn't.

Most muslim parents in the area you live probably know each other, they probably socialise in the same circles etc. it's also easier for parents and less awkward, because they then don't have to worry about non-halal food etc. That doesn't make it right, I'm just trying to explain it from their perspective.

Next time you see those parents in question, make conversation with them, tell them you are aware of halal food, no alcohol etc and will be happy to accommodate that if the kids want to come on a play date.

I would be cautious about my child going over for a play date anywhere, regardless of background etc, unless I knew the parents well enough.

Nicki, yes but I bet you the parents know each other from before, And more likely even, are probably related!

I can't make conversation with her because she doesn't speak English. However she is happy to send her child to another household where they don't share a common language because that household is Muslim.

Why does this always have to be excused? If I said" no dd cannot go to a play date because they are Muslim" what would you say to that?

Happy I have already said one family is from India and one is from Somalia! I am good friends with the Indian family and they did not know each other before. Your responses to me are all based in your imagination.

Happy - thanks. I didn't know that.
Nicki - just wondering (as it sounds like your dd's friendship with the Somali-origin friend is important to her), could you invite the mum over for coffee with your Indian friend too? Could the daughter translate the invitation for you? The first time my dd had a Tanzanian Muslim friend over, the mum stayed to see what we were like (understandably), and has been ok with her coming over since.

Thanks LEM and NanFlanders. I think the problems of non integration have to do with culture as much as religion. Some Muslim cultures are more open minded than others. Another contributing factor is the education of parents. What I see is that as Muslims we have left a lot of humanitarian teachings behind and are too invested in rituals. I only came here after graduating but am more integrated than some second generation Muslims as I don't have an identity problem. My daughter might, I couldn't raise Her bilingual as she was in full time childcare but to me as long as she can communicate with me that's fine. My parents tell me off but I just don't want to send her to classes where she would be taught segregation as well as language. I am religious but I am confused now how to raise her without frightening her. My world view has shifted since coming from my home country as our education has a big part of propaganda to it. There are people back in my country now trying to teach kids creative thinking and a more balanced world view. I hope they succeed against the talibanisation of my nation. IS and Taliban are hurting the Muslims the most, both literally and their reputation.

Nicki, think about it, if she can't speak English, how is she supposed to communicate to you that her DD can't have non-halal food? With the Somali family, she doesn't have to worry about that.