The problem with my daughter's Muslim school friends - or rather their parents

[Jules2]

I wonder if anyone else has experienced/is experiencing this problem. My 10-year-old daughter goes to a Haringey junior school with a fairly high number of Muslim children - the make up approx. 50% of her class of 28. Her group of friends in school are mostly Muslim girls. But unfortunately (with a couple of very occasional exceptions) these poor girls do not seem to be allowed to mix with non-Muslims outside of school hours. Over the years, invitations to come to our house to play, or come to parties have been rejected with many an implausible excuse. My DD has gone to maybe a couple of parties held by her friends in 5+ years of school. Weekends are taken up with Islamic school for the most part - or they stay at home. They are not allowed to go to the cinema, swimming or whatever with non-Muslims. I find it incredibly frustrating and annoying to see my daughter upset because she is unable to socialise with these girls outside of school. She doesn't understand why - and neither do I really. The school is fond of billing itself as a multicultural, inclusive school but the message doesn't seem to have gotten through to this section of the population. I'm afraid I have started to believe that if immigrants to this country - from any racial or religious background - do not want their children to mix with children from other ethnic/religious backgrounds (including British-born children), then maybe they have chosen the wrong country to come and live in. (My DD is half Chinese, by the way - but born here.) I'd be happy to hear from some Muslim parents with a different attitude - I hope there are some out there.

thesaurusgirl I don't allow my children to watch television in any language- they're own or otherwise.

Obviously I'm trying to isolate them, and prevent them from having any common ground with their classmates.

'They're'? FFS- their!

It is difficult for you but unfortunately I don't think there is very much you can do about it. Because it's just simply their culture that mixes mostly with family. You just have to explain this to her. Whether it's fair or right is beside the point.

I'm in NW London and I don't agree OP.
All the kids at DS's school get along and socialise at parties, meet up in holidays etc but who has the time or energy for playdates?

A couple of dd's close friends are Muslim, and although they do go for Arabic lessons a couple of times a week, we have never had an issue like the OP describes - the kids do play dates, sleepovers, parties and whatever. My dd loves going to one of the houses - her friend's mum spoils them silly!

There are lots of Muslim kids at dd's school, and my impression is that there are no issues with integration at all. On the other hand, dd does have a friend from a strict Christian background who isn't allowed to do parties or sleepovers etc. I think it just depends on the family.

I hope you are reassured now OP

we're an inclusive country with a long colonial and multi-cultural history, if you want to live here, you blend in.

I just don't know where to begin with this, it's 20 million shades of wrong.

I'm going to limit myself to this, as I'm spitting with fury:

"We're an inclusive country" - what does that mean? Are you inclusive? How does that fit with 'you blend in'? Are you speaking for the whole country? Nice change from the country's 'inclusiveness' during its "long colonial history".

"with a long colonial" - are you seriously trying to tell the victims of this country's long colonial history that England has....a long colonial history?? Seriously??

"if you want to live here" - plenty don't, honestly. Plenty had that decision made for them many generations ago - by the very people who are now forcing them to 'blend in'. And so what if foreigners do 'want to live here'? Everybody is free to live in another country, and as long as they respect the laws of that country (unlike, just to pick one example, the people of this country at the height of their 'long colonial history') they are free to be whoever they choose to be.

"you blend in" - I never swear, IRL or in writing, but am going to make an exception this once. FUCK OFF. Who the hell do you think you are??

My sister had this when she was at junior school, but the best friend involved wasn't Muslim, she was a Jehovah's Witness. "Playdates" weren't so much of a thing then, but the girl wasn't allowed to come over to our house for any reason (and certainly not parties, as they don't celebrate birthdays), nor did my sister get to go to her house.

Their friendship did rather wither, it was a shame.

I'm English living in Germany - my DCs did some English things at weekends and 2 of them chose o go to an English 'club'

Everybody is entitled to make their own parenting choices. That includes what their older dc do after school. The OP's invitations appear to have been politely refused - with an excuse given for the refusal. You need to suck that up OP not bitch about it.

I am Muslim. Dd1 who is 5, is going to the cinema tomorrow with one of her best friends and his (yes, a boy) mum, who is also non-Muslim. She goes to a very mixed school and has Muslim and non-Muslim friends.

So I suppose I'm one of the "good Muslims" who gets to stay in the UK.

I'll give you a tip OP, suggesting throwing groups of people out of the country, or constantly questioning their right to stay in the country is faaaar more hostile and divisive then the behaviour you complain about in the OP.

Doziedoozie you may think my point is ridiculous, so let me clarify for you. It was to illustrate that many people, myself included, would quite happily send their children to additional classes to study the family's native language and culture if they are living in a different country.

So yes, if I ever did move myself and dc to another country in which English is not the national language, then I would actively seek classes and activities outside of school hours which would support their learning of their parent's culture and language. I would therefore happily send my dc to English classes on a Saturday. If I was ever in that position.

Just like my friend who sends her dc to "Portugeuse School" on a Saturday in London. The very same classes that she did as a child. Which meant that she wasn't always around to play out on the landing of our block of flats. Because that's what her family did.

And i did exactly what finola is talking about -

DD2 has quite a few muslim friends. Have had similar experiences with sleepovers, but not always. They will dress up and go out for Hallowe'en, so that was good, and go out for a meal as long as there are vegetarian options, also done lazer tag, climbing wall parties and donutting which they have all attended happily. :)

And I say good for those families who support their daughters' and sons' religious and linguistic learning equally.

I live in probably the whitest, most Christian bit of Britain where multi-cultural means parents from two neighbouring towns. My DD and DS rarely, if ever, get invited to people's houses. Weirdly, also, we hold parties and invite people round but they rarely (unless they too are incomers) invite us back. Socialising here is very much done within the extended family. We know loads and loads of people but our friendships do not extend to being in each others' homes on the whole. Cultural? Not sure.

Are these parents actually immigrants OP or 2nd/3rd generation?
I would have no problem in theory with my sons having non-Muslim friends (they already play with non-Muslim children but they are only little so I am there with them). My main concerns about them going alone would be around food, and as they got older whether they would come into contact with activities that we would not feel were acceptable.
It's certainly not a prejudice against the children themselves I wouldn't have thought, but concerns because these families will be aware that non-Muslims may have different ideas about what's OK and what's not.

All of my children have friends who are Muslim, and the attitude of their parents ranges from "Yes, X would love to come over to play, when can we have your DD over and would you like to meet up for coffee while they're at school?" to complete self-segregation and the child not being allowed on school trips.

We are strict vegetarians, and that seems to make Muslim (and Orthodox Jewish) parents a bit more relaxed about their children eating at our house.

What would be your attitude if, say, the Smith family had activities and family time planned all weekend, which didn't include space for your DD?

If it was ONE Smith Family I wouldn't give it a second thought. But it is was nearly EVERY Smith Family in the country then I would be