The problem with my daughter's Muslim school friends - or rather their parents

[Jules2]

I wonder if anyone else has experienced/is experiencing this problem. My 10-year-old daughter goes to a Haringey junior school with a fairly high number of Muslim children - the make up approx. 50% of her class of 28. Her group of friends in school are mostly Muslim girls. But unfortunately (with a couple of very occasional exceptions) these poor girls do not seem to be allowed to mix with non-Muslims outside of school hours. Over the years, invitations to come to our house to play, or come to parties have been rejected with many an implausible excuse. My DD has gone to maybe a couple of parties held by her friends in 5+ years of school. Weekends are taken up with Islamic school for the most part - or they stay at home. They are not allowed to go to the cinema, swimming or whatever with non-Muslims. I find it incredibly frustrating and annoying to see my daughter upset because she is unable to socialise with these girls outside of school. She doesn't understand why - and neither do I really. The school is fond of billing itself as a multicultural, inclusive school but the message doesn't seem to have gotten through to this section of the population. I'm afraid I have started to believe that if immigrants to this country - from any racial or religious background - do not want their children to mix with children from other ethnic/religious backgrounds (including British-born children), then maybe they have chosen the wrong country to come and live in. (My DD is half Chinese, by the way - but born here.) I'd be happy to hear from some Muslim parents with a different attitude - I hope there are some out there.

Nothing like a spot of casual racism on a Friday evening...

My DS (white English) is very friendly with a Muslim boy. Both aged 8. They have been on play dates to each others houses. I make sure I serve vegetarian food when he comes. I would be sad and frustrated too if I were the OP.

We live in south London where all kids live close to the school. Play dates are very common, although sometimes difficult to squeeze in between activities.

Jules2 I understand your situation, we have been in very much the same through primary. Have you tried writing a short note to the parents? Only to say that your DD likes their DD and is keen to foster a friendship, you will ensure that their religious views / practices are observed whilst in your home etc. Nothing sycophantic, just reassuring them that you're not going to lead their daughter astray! If you have an activity or outing in mind, maybe provide details on how the kids will be taken or collected, who will be there (yourself or OH) etc.

I know that sounds really OTT, but it may help to allay any fears or reservations those families may have about you.

One of the first times a Muslim school friend and her mum came to ours for an after school play date, the mum had to check what time my DH came home - she didn't want to be in the company of an unknown male and made sure to leave before he came home. Not a concern for me if I were visiting someone, but obviously something to consider for her whilst arranging the play date.

This isn't always the norm.

My youngest attends a private prep. 75% of the class are Muslim, Sikh Jewish, not 'English'

We are a very friendly inclusive year and school, Halloween party , Santa visit just to name 2 'traditional' events are well supported by all and there has never to my knowledge been any degradation at parties.

Play dates are less often but I don't know if that's geographical as we tend to come from a wider area than a local school.

Works well for us - but I sympathise with you OP I don't think you are being unreasonable.

I don't think what Jules (OP) has said is in the slightest little bit derogatory. It is helpful to open up discussion and understand what other families from other cultures might do. There is absolutely nothing wrong with integrating (or inviting integration) surely?

Segregation. Segregation. Segregation

These have been 6 year old parties of course there is no degradation !!!

Choc yes...for this reason when my nephew's Dad takes the little Muslim boy back home, he knocks on the door, the letterbox is flapped up and the mum or sister thanks him. He then leaves their son on the step. The door isn't opened till he's in his car.

He sits to make sure the boy is in the house.....he isn't offended...but it's very strange when you think about it.

I hate this, I'm afraid, and it isn't new - the Muslims and the Jews in my very academic, very well known, supposedly very multicultual and diverse school in Manchester self-segregated in the 90s.

It's absolutely not healthy - the kids don't learn about other people's beliefs and they don't learn to socialise. They even watch TV in their own language so they have no common ground with their peers and isolate themselves further.

Diversity is a two-way street. We have never done apartheid or segregation in this country. Why are we allowing immigrants to do it by stealth?

Not something I ever noticed with my DD's Muslim friends tbh. We just gave them veggie food when they came over for tea and all was well.

The only child I did feel sorry for was the child of Jehovah's Witness parents who had to watch every other child in the class celebrate their birthdays - that did seem a bit rough but I assume she was used to it.

Substitute 'black' for the 'non-Muslim' kids in this thread, and suddenly it becomes crystal clear what's going on.

Fucking stop it, we're an inclusive country with a long colonial and multi-cultural history, if you want to live here, you blend in.

My DS has friends from all different cultures. Never noticed any segregation.

And I live in Leicester.

My post isn't ridiculous. It merely disagrees with your prejudiced point of view.

And yes, you can be black and Muslim and prejudiced. Being a minority doesn't give you a free pass to be intolerant towards people who don't share your beliefs.

Try reading my other posts. I'm about as far from racist as you can imagine.

So most likely, they would be off to English school on a Saturday

I've lived overseas a lot and never have I found anyone doing something so daft.

And of the people posting about their DC's muslim friends coming round 2 were talking about BOYS.

I really think we should slow the incoming muslims now. I can't see it ending happily. I'm sure everyone assumed initially that the muslims moving to the UK would become more westernized and less religious, instead the opposite is happening.

I will get slated as racist, muslims aren't a race they are a religion. I would feel the same if there were a million fundamentalist Christians dominating areas of the country. Eventually it will be hard for non-muslim women in certain workplaces, or to hold their own in the boardroom if the majority of others are muslim.

I had plenty of muslim friends as a small girl, and we went to each others' houses to play (no 'play dates' 35 years ago!). No problems- the parents knew mine (we're non-muslim), it was no problem at all. We were invited to homes for Eid celebrations, weddings, birthdays etc, and we invited back.

It's nothing to do with Islam.
My children don't get many play dates- both parents work FT, they have classes after school/at weekends, parties every weekend (it feels like!), we see grandparents or good friends, etc, there just isn't much time for play dates!

Our primary has not done a Nativity for many many years... It is predominantly non-white and non-Christian, but I don't know the exact reason why it's not an option.

What a load of crap. Different strokes for different folks. For every family (muslim or not) that doesn't want to partake in life the way YOU want them to, there will be a family (muslim or not) that does.
You do not know the reasons why their dd doesn't play with yours the way you would like, suck it up and go talk to the mum perhaps explaining you will accommodate her dds needs. Unless you won't do that because blah blah blah immigrants have to do what we do all the time and fuck off back to where they came from if not

Yes, I do actually: it was the subject of my postgrad.

If you knew anything about colonial history, you'd know why segregation is a seriously bad idea for everyone.

Hmm. I guess they are older but my teens have Muslim school friends who socialise. My 15yr olds close mates the " birthday party " ones are all Muslim / other iyswim! They come here and eat veggie food and watch age appropriate DVDs. She goes there ( mostly to huge extended family party things!)

When she was younger the sweetest thing was a little ( she was little even at 12) girl from a very mono cultural area who arrived all hijabed etc and thr moment she was through the door it was all taken off and they just chilled including playing badminton in the garden with DS in his pjs!

The only " oddness" was when the mum of one 11yr old wanted to know that I'd be chaperoning her dd all the time - which was not my intention - they went to the cinema I took them and met after. After meeting the dd I realised why - she was a madam! If anyone was going to lead the others into trouble it'd be her! She's grown out of it now :)