I am on day 3 of No Shouting.

[MyCrazyLife]

And I'm so bloody proud of myself!

I hated myself sometimes; I've got three lovely children (5, 3 and 1) and yet I got to the point where I was screaming at them regularly. Ok so in my "defence" it's the holidays, they fight and wind each other up constantly, I get very bad PMT.

But on the other hand, my horrible, abusive mother used to shout and scream at me, everything was my fault, and she would end saying things like "you should be ashamed" ... "You are a horrible bitch that no one likes" etc etc (things that to this day still affect me).

Now I never got that far with my own DC of course; they are all so loved and wanted. But I was terrified I'd turn into her. So after having a horrible day last Thursday, I vowed to stop shouting. They will still be disciplined if naughty, of course - with the Silly Step or toy confiscation etc - but I won't take out my own frustrations on them.

It's the third day, they're all asleep and I haven't shouted since that Thursday. I never thought I'd be able to do this, really hope I can keep it up. If I can, they may never remember the awful screeching mum they used to have.

Anybody else managed to stop?

Thanks everyone, this thread is such a lifeline for me. Starting again on pick up from nursery. A lot of how I feel is tied up with not being the SAHM I always thought I'd be and the pressure I put myself under to be like my mum - who was the most patient, kind and wonderful mother.

Those with two children, I just am amazed at how you do it. Siblings are great but I can understand why there are four years between me and my sister! Keep going, we're all getting better

Thumb I really hope your bronchitis clears up soon.

MyCrazyLife are you ok?

Karin, none of us are perfect and we all have different things that trigger the shouting. For most I think tiredness plays a huge part though. When you're working it's tough to get it right and whatever you do, you always feel guilty. If it helps, I gave up full time work in May to be a SAHM thinking being at home would solve all the behavioural problems... Did it shyte
Stick with it and well done for making the changes you have already.

I feel that pressure too - I'm on mat leave after feeling frazzled working 4 days pw and thought I'd love the time at home and get into it and dd1 would love having me around... It's not working out like that.

I think she was happier when with grandparents or nursery whilst I work and I don't feel I can stimulate her as much/well as they did. Now I worry that deep down working so much actually suited me because I didn't have to do so much parenting

I know she's just copying me with the rocking, touching, stroking etc, but of course she's heavy handed. I do praise her for being kind and gentle but she doesn't seem to get when she can and can't prod/poke. Ie dd2 will be screaming for a feed and dd1 will be grabbing at her trying to cuddle stroke soothe whilst clambering on me while I get my boob out.

And dd2 is not the laid back second child people promised me! I can't out her down much and not having much luck with a sling so I'm frazzled.

Anyway, rant over... I haven't read back but will try and leave a less self-indulgent post next time!

How old is DD2 MATB1?

DD (2.9) can be heavy handed with DS (6 months) but I've had to learn that he isn't nearly as delicate as I thought when he was first born and for the most part he enjoys the attention from DD.

What is that face squishing thing all about???? DD does that too.

I think it is easier to work. Do you think men would have gone out to work leaving women at home for 100's years if it was easier to be at home raising children.

I've the same problem MATB. My toddler is 2.7 and the baby is nearly 4 months. She keeps trying to give him things. Small things especially. She tried to pick him up last week and found he was too heavy and let him fall back down, walloping his head on the floor. She pulls his hand around like he's a doll. She just won't listen to me, whatever way I say it. Over and over, I tell her not to pull on him, lift him, give him things, etc.

She loves babies. Has a few dolls. Her older sister never had the same interest in babies at the same age.

I am trying to do it Pasta's way. Watching the baby's reactions to her. Mostly he laughs at her.

I kept my cool today. Mostly because DD1 was ill and slept a lot. I had more time for DD2 and she was better behaved too.

Lets see if I can do it again tomorrow.

Dd1 is 2.9 and dd2 is 5 weeks...

I think half the time I just need some space and dd1 is always clambering..

This afternoon we were at my parents and I asked dd1 to get her shoes as we were leaving (had already warned her we'd be going soon) and she just said no. I continued to ask calmly but she continued to just look at me... My dad asked her too and she just looked at him.

In the end I told her that I'd call the decorator (who she's scared of!) and he's come round. She did it, but begrudgingly and took her sweet time too. I genuinely didn't know what to do.... The more I have to ask the more I get het up and the more conscious I am that we're entering into battle. I felt under pressure too in front of my parents (dad wasn't ever massively shouty but had a good firm tone, my step mum would've happily gone and got the shoes for dd). I don't want to resort to threats or even really to bribes all the time - how else can I get her to comply???

She was tired today and so was/am I, so a bad combo all round I suppose!

Tiredness makes it all so much worse. I struggled to wake up this morning with DD right in my face saying 'it's milk time mummy'. Feel much better after a coffee.

It's so physical looking after small children. I know what you mean about needing some space. I'm always being climbed over, breastfeeding, carrying the baby etc

I'm finding chilling a bit with DD and DS is paying dividends. By waiting for him to indicate he's getting cross or it's hurting him they are growing close and are starting to play with each other a little bit which helps me.

WRT not following instructions not I've stopped shouting I just shrug and say 'fine, we won't go to X, what a shame as I really wanted to take you' and just walk away and sit down. It gets her attention immediately.

Morning everyone. I've been slowly reading through all the replies when I have the time and I'm currently up to page 15 (of 20), so apologies for not replying to the latest posts.

I've got to say, it sounds like you're all doing brilliantly.

I'm not, however :(

I had a truly awful day yesterday. It was my first day of maternity leave, DS1s first day at school, and DS2 was at nursery in the morning so I was able to go back home and get some much needed sleep (I'm 37wks pg and not getting a great deal of sleep atm).

In the afternoon, when both boys were back at home with me, I needed to go shopping but DS1 was desperate to see his grandparents to tell him about his first day at school. I agreed. When we arrived at my parents house, they were out in the front garden. They live on a corner plot, and one side of their house is a really busy road. There is no gate at the end of the drive and just a low 2 foot wall around the edge - easily low enough for my 3 and 4 yr olds to climb, so I HATE them being out there as I'm constantly on edge. My parents have several really tall, thick bushes in their front garden, plus a caravan, so there are plenty of "hiding" places. Almost straight away, both boys went running off to "hide" behind the bushes and my parents were very much like "oh don't worry, they do this all the time, they're fine" (up until I finished for maternity leave, my parents would collect the boys from nursery and keep them at their house until I got home from work). Ok, so up until now, there's never been an incident, and neither DS has ever climbed the wall or left the end of the drive. But if they ever did, there would be no second time. The road is SO busy and there is no doubts that they would be killed. No second chances. Being 37weeks pg and barely able to walk fast, nevermind run, I was getting more and more anxious. DS2 went off into the house with my parents but DS1 just refused to stop running off from me, running around the various bushes where I couldn't see him. But the more I tried to calmly tell him how dangerous it was and how if he didn't stop, we'd be going home, the more he did it, and the angrier I got.

After what felt like forever but was probably just a moment or two, I finally caught up with him but was very tired, very angry and I handled him rougher than I should have. I pushed him towards the house, twice, and on the second push he tripped over his own foot and fell over. My parents were horrified and I felt like the worst mother in the world. My own embarrassment at how badly I'd handled it all in front of my parents, plus pregnancy hormones, caused me to burst into tears and I was a screaming banshee. :( My parents (especially my Dad) were less than pleased when I announced my third pregnancy as they told me that they thought I seemed stressed all the time and barely able to cope with just two. Come on! Who ISN'T stressed and tired with two children under 4? Yes, I have bad days, who doesn't? but often my stress is heightened because I'm at my parents house, and desperate to get home after a busy day at work.

After a moment or two, even though I was still crying (but no longer shouting), I apologised to DS1 and tried to explain why I got so angry. He was crying his eyes out and was yelling back at me "you hurt my feelings!". Which of course, caused me to cry even more :(

We stayed for an hour or two and things were calm when we left, but even in the supermarket I was very snappy with DS1 so clearly hadn't learned anything. Someone a few pages ago said (and I agree completely) that when just one shouty outburst has occurred, it then sets the tone for the remainder of the day, and I seem incapable of turning things around.

What I have found interesting is how so many of you are "shouty mums" because your own mums were shouty. Mine wasn't and isn't. My Dad was, I suppose, but not really to me and siblings - it was more directed at my Mum. It was my mum that did most of the parenting growing up, and I can count on one hand the number of times I was really yelled at or smacked, so I can't even say that it was my upbringing that has caused me to have such a terribly short fuse and be a shouty parent. What's worse is that my DH WAS brought up in a shouty, accusatory, unhappy house and because of this, he's a VERY shouty parent. He has little patience too, and unfortunately is in the "the-odd-smack-does-them-no-harm" camp. I have regrettably smacked my boys in the past but vowed a few months ago never to do it again, and I haven't. I've just got to try and rein in the shouting now.

I can't very well be yelling when I have a newborn baby in the house, and all the stress of shouting at the moment causes lots of movement in the baby and so the stress must be being passed on, which makes me feel terrible.

I just feel so lousy at the moment - the worst mum in the world.

How do I stop myself from shouting??? I've read 3 or 4 BRILLIANT parenting books and agree with every word, but putting it into practice has been close to impossible this last couple of weeks. I'm hoping it's been so hard recently because I'm so heavily pregnant and that things WILL calm down. Please tell me they will!!

Mandbaby What's working for me or I should say sometimes works in certain scenarios eg putting on coat/come here/bring that item back is by saying "Please go and out your coat on". If there is no response or the answer is no then I repeat it and add on the end "either you do or I will do it for you" Hint of a stern serious no messing face.

I'm also making sure I follow through with any threat made so I have to make sure it's a threat I can actually carry out. No point me saying "no train track or tv" if I will be relying on those distractions to get through the witching hour.

Mat1B dc1 was 21mths when dc2 pitched up. Feeding times were the worst. I'd get the feeding pillow out onto my lap and before I could pick the baby up I had a toddler clambering on my lap getting all territorial. We also have face squishing and such like. I used to keep them separated if I needed to go upstairs or put the baby in the car first whilst I sorted out dc1 if we were going out. My experience is that when siblings arrive they need to show off their independence and authority a bit by being strong willed. They don't quite know how to handle having a sibling. Don't understand their feelings and can't communicate or really deal with the feelings. What's up with the sling? Does the baby not like it? After 3 weeks of screaming I gave my youngest a dummy. Best thing I ever did. Made everyone calmer.

I'm trying to remember to breathe and count to five if I feel my patience going. I've still not managed a shout free day yet. I am doing better tho.

and sympathy to all those with little babies and heavy handed older siblings!

My youngest isn't little, she's 3, ds is 7, but oh Lord does he fling her about?!

That gets me angry, and often leads to shouting.

Been fine the last few days, but I asked ds earlier if he'd had a nice summer holiday, and he said...no, you shouted a lot :(..... weird because I've been so much better these past few weeks.

I'm gutted, because I'm knackered out from pulling out the stops to give them a great summer :(

mandbaby I really relate to the pressure to 'parent well' in front of family. I found it interesting you said about your DH being shouty. Mine is too and I think it does have a knock-on effect in lots of ways eg the DCs become conditioned to think they only need to listen when someone is shouting at them. Plus, as an adult, I find that living with a shouty adult makes me feel incredibly stressed so I am more likely to shout. It's a vicious circle. I find I'm better if I emotionally detach from DH's shouting and view it as a choice he's making and that I don't have to let it impact on my emotions. I don't know if that would help you (or even if you feel the same about it!) but thought I'd share just in case.

Liberal try not to feel too upset. Sometimes DS will say I've been shouting when I know I haven't. He just means he's been given into trouble. It doesn't always mean I've raised my voice iyswim. Plus we're all on this thread because we want to be less shouty and that's the best present we can give our DCs.

mandbaby really relate to that too, especially the agreeing with the parenting books but struggling to put them into practice bit! DH is also shouty, and I know my mum blames him for me being shouty. I don't think that's fair though, because I've always had a tendency to short-temperedness and lack of patience! What gets me down is that I see DS1 growing up the same way - perpetually irritated and snappy and I feel that it's my fault for setting him a bad example, or hereditary or both.

Totally agree 're: the parenting books - I'm currently reading The Incredible Years, which is fab, but DS doesn't seem to be responding in the way the book suggests. I came very very close to a full on shout (and was certainly snappy) when he was refusing to put on his pyjamas, despite being obviously shattered and about to tantrum. Generally not a great time after school. I need to get much better at handling DS when he's tired and beyond all reason.

Does anyone ever feel simply helpless and as though you've lost all control? It's like talking to myself whilst the children carry on doing what they were doing as though I'm not even there. I find it so disheartening. Only way to get attention is to bribe or threaten to take away privileges and that bothers me. A lot.

Yes, Bingo - when DS is clearly beyond listening, and I find the endless sanctions and counting and being consistent so joyless. But then I also know my own mood has such a bearing on it too. I have to get better at distraction, but am not sure how...

Hi all, don't know if this helps (from a book so might not, but it's really helped here over the past week):
Descriptive Praise.
Rather than only picking up negative behaviour, describe positively the good behaviour - even if it is minor.
Things like: "I notice you are playing nicely and not fighting. That shows me how 'friendly/cooperative/insert quality here' you are." or "I only had to remind/ask you once to do x, that is very cooperative of you". Don't use the "brilliant, good, nice" type words.
Start by choosing no more than 2 behaviours and keep praising. I'm doing picking nose and eating it and toilet words. I've seen a big difference. I'm now moving onto table manners and last 2 days have seen a big improvement.
Aim for at least 10 praises a day -seems a lot but it makes a difference. I've physically seen my children puff their chests out with pride on a few occasions

I'll give that a go Buffers I'm willing to try anything after tonight's tea time, I properly shouted at them, dd cried :(

Bingo - YES! I have actually taken myself off for a "time out" in my room because I can't handle anything any more - and while I've thought "I hope they don't really hurt themselves" I have to just sit for a bit because I can't do any more at that point. They won't listen, they won't stop - not until at least one of them is in tears, anyway. But even that only stops 'em temporarily - then they're straight back into doing exactly what caused the tears in the first place! Argghhhhh!!

I praise positive behaviour - I've always done that since DS1 was tiny, it's the one thing that I do very differently from my parents - but it doesn't address all situations adequately.
DS2 is starting to realise that he's done something wrong now but only because I shout at him when he hits DS1/throws something at him. DS1 being in tears usually helps but it's not ideal by any stretch.

Still ill as well, so that's really not helping - I have warned DS1 that my temper is even shorter than usual but then that's putting the onus onto him rather than me taking full responsibility for my own temper, which is also wrong. :( Can't win. Feels like I'm failing somewhat.

Very difficult not to be grumpy and cross this morning after DS woke me early yet again. I always thought by age 5 he'd be a better sleeper. I think ASD though can mean they're not great sleepers but I'm just dead tired after years of this. I'm having a time out with a coffee right now thumbwitch as I don't trust myself to talk to the kids yet nicely

I've had a much better couple of days and even though DS2 has been a little sod and the baby in my tummy is constantly doing somersaults and practicing kung-fu on my bladder, I've managed not to shout in some rather stressful situations.

That said, I do find myself getting very "ratty" at the small things. I suppose that's to be expected at nearly 38wks pg.

I was thinking, and wondering if any of you ever feel like this... Do you ever feel massive relief at having "child-free" time? Now DS1 has just started school, and DS2 qualifies for 15 free nursery hours a week, and I've just started maternity leave, I can't wait to drop them both off and get home to be alone. Is that normal?! I feel terrible that I feel this way but honestly, I love it. I miss them both after a while but normally within moments of picking them both up, I'm already counting down the hours until the next time I get some time alone.

Sounds like everyone is making headway, which is great!

Mandbaby definitely understand that feeling. I work FT and therefore DS is in nursery. Sometimes (often...) I find myself wishing for bedtime as I tend to do most weekends by myself. Then feel horribly guilty because I only get to see him morning and evening and then at the weekend.

You ARE 38 weeks' pregnant though! It's no bloody wonder you need the house to yourself and to be free of little hands!

mandbaby I definitely find myself counting down the hours (or days if it's the holidays) until I get 'child-free; time. Partly for the break and partly because I don't feel so blooming hopeless at work or relaxing whereas, at the moment anyway, I feel like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall at this mum lark.

DS had massive temper tantrum yesterday and I shouted. I'd been doing so well too.

Today he's had three temper tantrums. I haven't shouted but I am just so disheartened with it all. He can be a lovely little boy but he's acting so badly and he doesn't even seem to be particularly angry or upset, it almost feels like he's acting out to get a reaction. I've confiscated games, put him in time out, sat and cuddled him, etc, but then he has just done the same things all over again ie using the two bad words that he knows; throwing his jacket away; running away. I feel like I'm shit at this.

Hi all!

Not been tooooo bad, certainly better since kids have been back at school/nursery. Honestly I think 6 weeks is too much for most people (desperately tries to ignore threads full of...Oh I hate the end of the hols I want my kids with me forever...)

I was totally skint the last two weeks, and had just had enough.

Dd is also funded for nursery now, so get 3 hours child free a day, it's been lovely to be able to get stuff done without them, that's natural I think, and at 38 wks pregnant I certainly wouldn't feel bad about that!

Book I hear you, how old is your ds?

Buffers is that from The Incredible Years?

I shouted yesterday and LOUDLY too because they were trashing stuff and stamping trying to smash stuff and I said gently three times to stop so I could clear it up and they ignored me. Only then did they take any notice.

I really don't want them to grow up and only really remembering that I was shouty and angry for most of it. I know it's not their fault as they are being young children and it's what young children do but I really don't like who I've become.

It's from Calmer, Easier, Happier Parenting. So far I've found the methods do work (when I am feeling patient enough to use them).