Are we the only ones doing without Father Christmas?

[Octaviapink]

We thought about the whole Father Christmas thing - telling the children there's a man with a big beard who lives at the North Pole (or Lapland or wherever) who comes down the chimney on Christmas Eve and leaves presents for good children - and frankly I couldn't stomach it. Lots of reasons:

1. Lying to the children. My DCs trust me, and if I tell DD a thing she knows it's so. I've never lied to her. I don't want this to be the first time and about something so crass.
2. The Victorian boogyman aspect of it - it seems to belong to an age where if you did bad things someone would 'get' you. I have friends who pretend their security system is Father-Christmas-cam and that he's watching them the whole time to see how good they are.
3. They find out pretty soon at school that it's not true, so you're probably only looking at a three or four year lifespan for the whole thing anyway when they genuinely believe (IME a lot of children pretend to believe when they're older so they get presents).
4. I still remember how devastated and disbelieving I was when I found out.
5. Buying a load of useless tat for stockings.

DD is 2.8 so this is the first time it's been possible to tell her things about Christmas. Anything we started now we'd have to continue. It just seems pointless and in some respects rather cruel. I'd rather we gave the children presents from us and concentrated on other aspects of Christmas. So Father Christmas is just a man depicted on some of the Christmas cards and nothing special.

I do feel vaguely guilty about the fact it'll probably be DD at school telling other children it's not real.

Are we the only ones?

Yes.

She's your child but as you've posted I assume you want opinions.
My DD is 2.9 and I have gone all out to make the magic of Christmas come alive for her this year. I still remember the excitement I felt as a child at this time of year and want my DC to have the same. Even he it is only for a few years. Kids 'know' Peppa Pig isn't real but still get excited to meet her when someone dresses up as her. I wouldn't want to deprive my child of any excitement possible. They're only young once and that time should be magical - it doesn't all have to be about behaviour or presents - children get just as excited by the mystical aspects too.

You were 'devastated' Blimey. Seems rather a black and white way of bringing up your child.

Go and get a copy of 'Miracle on 34th street' :) and watch it with your dc.

What about the tooth fairy?

Here's the thing with Father Christmas. He does exist. He is every mum and dad who sneaked around buying presents for their children and hiding them in the loft. He is every PTA dad who donned the red suit and sat in a little room for hours talking to pupils about the latest toy. He is everyone involved in the NORAD Santa Tracker and Portable North Pole websites. He is every grown up and child old enough to realise when truth still keeping the secret for all the children who still believe. I can't remember when I found out the truth, it wasn't a big enough deal to leave me with a bitter life scar, but I do have sweet memories of going to bed early on Christmas eve, listening for him, and the excitement of waking up and he'd been! My children believe in magic, and so do I.

Oh, and by the way, kids love useless tat

I think you are looking at it from an adult perspective. Do you get no joy seeing children utterly entranced by the magic in life?

Sad for you.

It's the lying and the threatening that I don't like. "If you're naughty he won't come." etc. Rank blackmail and bribery. We don't do it in any other aspect of parenting so I see no reason to do it now. Also, I said we were doing without Father Christmas, not Christmas. There's plenty of magic in everyday life - as I speak DD is charging around the house with a cardboard box on her head being a spaceman.

TBH I did expect to be the only one.

It's really selfish and all about you isn't it? To rob them of the magic is pretty shit. And the sanctimonious bilge about not wanting to lie makes my teeth itch.

Never met a child on the naughty list yet OP.

You can talk about Santa without the 'if you're naughty he won't come' part. We do. I don't use threats I wouldn't carry out.

We don't do any threatening here. Just the nice stuff.

We managed to get DD to believe in Father Christmas without any threatening, blackmail or bribery. I dont quite see why you couldn't, although I take your point that it is 'lying' technically. On balance, I think of it more as creating a magical world once a year rather than anything more negative.

I read this just after you'd first started tge thread and also put the same as tge first reply you got but wanted to ponder further.

When your child is your age and has a dc, will they be glad you didn't 'lie' or will they feel they missed out? Only asking as you said tge reason you don't want to do it is due to your feelings as a child.

I don't see what's magic about pretending there's a man who brings presents. As I say - there's plenty of other magic in life that doesn't involve encouraging acquisitive consumerism.

And not wanting to lie isn't 'sanctimonious bilge' secretsanta233. It's about not wanting to threaten a relationship of trust that I value. Children find out soon enough that their parents don't have all the answers and can't always be trusted - that's the magic that I value, if you like. That period of childhood when children believe in you, absolutely. I think it's more important than trying to create something that ultimately only benefits toy manufacturers.

Thank you all for your measured responses - it's clarifying my thinking to make my position clear. TBH I expected a lot more flaming.

OP you are going to get ripped to shreds. On mumsnet it is not acceptable to not do Father Christmas, let alone imply that other people who do are in any way wrong. You will be told (and have already) that you are selfish, denying your children magic, possibly hurting other children, have no imagination etc etc

We don't do Santa. I grew up without it, and had magical wonderful Christmases. As a child I don't recall anyone else particularly doing Santa either, it seems to have become much more prevalent, or perhaps just much discussed here. I've never noticed children from families that have Father Christmas traditions being any more or less excited about Christmas than my children, and talking to them now (they are 12 and 11) they are pretty blase about the whole thing. Oh, and as far as I know neither of them have ever burst another child's bubble about the big fat man.

Your child your choice really. Most people think their own Christmas traditions are the best (and that is how it should be IMO) but there are lots and lots of way to celebrate.

"It's the lying and the threatening that I don't like. "If you're naughty he won't come."

Of course I may have to eat all this with a large slice of humble pie when DD comes home from nursery school next Christmas saying she wants to hang up her stocking. Then I might have to re-think. But I'm not going to be the one who starts it off.

Thank you nooka! Yes, I knew I was going to get it in the neck, but I am interested in other people's views - hence the thread.

1 I bet you have lied to your daughter. Ever told her you loved her dancing or picture or whatever?
2 you really don't have to RAM home the naughty or nice thing
3 that's 4 really magical years you are writing off
4 most kids take learning the truth in their stride
5 kids love stockings full of tat

octavian I am 90% with you on this one.

When DD was three she said 'there's no such person as father Christmas, it's you mummy' and I said 'yes, but it's fun to pretend' and that's how we left it. We still have the 'fun to pretend' bit. We still have glitter footprints and mince pies and definitely stockings and seecrets and surprised and nonsense. DD is 17!

Like you I didn't want to lie to the DC and certainly didn't want to use 'if you keep being naughty Father Christmas won't come' as I had no intention of following through. I don't lie to them the rest of the year and it didn't sit well lying at Christmas.

I too had 'burglar getting into the house down chimney if father Christmas can' and had to virtually shove DD up the chimney to show that it would be impossible :)

Similarly the tooth fairy was huge fun...mad little letters, tiny presents, 'self portraits' of the fairy etc etc. We both knew it was for fun.

The fun and magic of Christmas is not diminished. I can't wait...and I am NOT 2.8

"It's the lying and the threatening that I don't like. "If you're naughty he won't come.""

Who says that? I never did. Occasionally, DS would be having a moment and I'd look skyward, say 'Shhhh!!' and 'I think I heard sleigh-bells!!!' Brilliant distraction technique

If you don't like make-believe and can't cope with anything other than 100% reality, I think that's a rather a pity. But a lot of us, and a lot of children, can suspend disbelief and buy into all kinds of stories and myths quite happily without suffering distress or thinking we've been lied to. My DS is now 11yo and really bought the FC story. He thinks knowing the truth puts him in the same league as the grown-ups now but can't wait to see his little 3yo cousin later this week and keep the FC magic going for another generation.

I think it's horrible to not have Father Christmas in your child's life but still do christmas.

Imagine how she will feel at school when all her friends talk about Father Christmas coming. Seeing all the adverts with him on.

I would never ever do that to my children, I want them to experience the excitement and magic I did when I was younger.

You could tell her about st Nicholas and all about the origins of father Christmas in a 'this is what some people believe' way.

I love "shhh, I hear sleigh bells" cogito. I think we might add that to the repertoire. (DC are teenagers, and although they roll their eyes they still like a bit of this nonsense- they come up with their own..."oh look FC has dropped something behind the sofa, oooh look, it's a present for you granny" type thing)
And I fully agree with 'suspend disbelief' but that is just it, you are SUSPENDING it, not telling children off for not believing

Just make sure you instill on her NOT to tell other children in her nursery or school as she gets older that FC does not exist as you may find yourself at the wrong end of parents ire.