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Are we the only ones doing without Father Christmas?

175 replies

Octaviapink · 21/12/2011 05:26

We thought about the whole Father Christmas thing - telling the children there's a man with a big beard who lives at the North Pole (or Lapland or wherever) who comes down the chimney on Christmas Eve and leaves presents for good children - and frankly I couldn't stomach it. Lots of reasons:

  1. Lying to the children. My DCs trust me, and if I tell DD a thing she knows it's so. I've never lied to her. I don't want this to be the first time and about something so crass.
  2. The Victorian boogyman aspect of it - it seems to belong to an age where if you did bad things someone would 'get' you. I have friends who pretend their security system is Father-Christmas-cam and that he's watching them the whole time to see how good they are.
  3. They find out pretty soon at school that it's not true, so you're probably only looking at a three or four year lifespan for the whole thing anyway when they genuinely believe (IME a lot of children pretend to believe when they're older so they get presents).
  4. I still remember how devastated and disbelieving I was when I found out.
  5. Buying a load of useless tat for stockings.

DD is 2.8 so this is the first time it's been possible to tell her things about Christmas. Anything we started now we'd have to continue. It just seems pointless and in some respects rather cruel. I'd rather we gave the children presents from us and concentrated on other aspects of Christmas. So Father Christmas is just a man depicted on some of the Christmas cards and nothing special.

I do feel vaguely guilty about the fact it'll probably be DD at school telling other children it's not real.

Are we the only ones?

OP posts:
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SunnilyEnough · 21/12/2011 09:56

Rationally, I understand your point - when you talk about a strange man coming down the chimney etc., it all sounds a bit odd. But I think you need to be very careful - as a child, I believed in all sorts of things - enchanted forests, fairies, pixies, toys coming to life in the night etc. (not things my parents specifically "lied" to me about), and I fervently wanted to believe in them.

I also believed in FC until I was about 10, I suppose, and can remember looking out at the starry night sky on Christmas Eve when I was about 7, desperate to see some reindeer and convinced I'd heard sleighbells. Our stocking had only little things in it (main presents came from M&D), but it wasn't about the presents, it was about magic and twinkling and breathlessly believing in something sweet and special.

It's very black and white to talk only in terms of truth and lies - there are a lot of grey shades inbetween - which obviously doesn't apply just to Christmas. There are definitely times when always stating the truth can actually be damaging/frightening for your child; I think you need to be careful of only dealing in absolutes and remember that children have a whole different understanding of the world, and that their emotional intelligence is not the same as yours.

I'm not trying to persuade you to do FC of course - it's up to you. But I think long-term you should reconsider your attitude about "lying" to your children. Also think about why so many people see beauty in telling their children magical stories, and why most adults don't look back angrily at the parents for not telling them the truth but rather feel grateful that they had a few years of believing in magic.

But I think what gets up people's noses it that you sound so superior - as if the rest of us are lying, threatening, non-reflecting parents who have no respect for their children and are just creating greedy consumerist brats - when really the whole spirit of FC is completely the opposite. But if you don't get that, then I guess it explains why you don't want to do it.

Chandon · 21/12/2011 09:57

OP, my children don' believe in Santa as we are foreign and only came to the UK 3 years ago (too late to start it!)

I don't think you are odd at all by the way.

I think you can have a nice Christmas your way Smile

I would not make it a matter of "principle" though to tell them he does not exist. Why not keep it nice and vague, and if they WANT to believe they can? You see, kids do want to believe and I feel a bit wistful sometimes that mine were too old to get into it "properly".

Francagoestohollywood · 21/12/2011 09:58

It is up to you, really, and I can see your point (esp. the fact that Father Christmas was invented by Coca Cola etc. I am Italian and up until 20 yrs ago Italian children believed that it was baby Jesus brought presents on the 25th. Now baby Jesus has been replaced by FC).

Trust me though, it is not with Father Christmas that you risk to damage a trusty relationship with your dc.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Wingdingdong · 21/12/2011 10:06

"Another aspect of it is that I'm a marketing director - I know how marketing works - and I know that Father Christmas was invented by the Coca Cola company rather less than 100 years ago " - See, that's the problem with marketing people - they assume that everything is a marketing ploy. Have you heard of the poem 'T'was the Night before Christmas'? It was published in 1823, which is rather more than 100 years ago. Rather undermines your argument.

I don't give a monkey's as to who believes in Father Christmas or not, and the actual decision as to whether or not FC 'visits' your house is valid, whatever the outcome. The philosophical reasoning behind the OP, however, is deeply flawed. If you're going to be consistent with your argument that you won't go along with the suspension of disbelief, you should also ban your child from dressing up in a space helmet, not allow them to act in any plays, not read anything other than non-fiction, etc. In fact, you come across rather like Mr Gradgrind in Hard Times. Saying you just can't be arsed would be less pretentious and a hell of a lot fairer on the children. By telling them FC does not exist, you're as bad as the people you deplore - you're depriving your children of the choice to believe and the decision-making process.

If you really were that devastated at finding out FC didn't exist, and want to protect your DD from the disappointment (though I suspect she will be disillusioned in many more hurtful ways over the years than finding out that actually, her parents bought her some presents - her 'best friend' saying something nasty about her, breaking up with her first boyfriend...), then fine, that's your choice; I feel that disillusionment is a necessary part of growing up and managing the process is the parental responsibility, helping children to rehearse future situations ("you're right, Father Christmas doesn't exist - how did you work that out? That's very clever reasoning, well done. So who did give the presents? Why? Do you like surprises? Do you want to carry on pretending, or shall we make up something else now that you're bigger?"). Have you considered the opposite scenario - that she will get to an age when she realises everybody else gets stockings, that they all know, or think they do, that it's really their parents, and she comes to the conclusion her parents just don't care or love her enough, which is what happened to a friend of mine? Just a thought.

If my own DD asks questions, I'll make up stories or tell her truths or half-truths depending on her age - same as I do for everything else. Every time she asks why it's raining, I give her a different story. She's 2.4, she really doesn't need to know about condensation/evaporation, convection currents, etc yet, though that's one of the stories I tell her. TBH, for her the thought that the water is magically drawn up out of the sea and makes clouds which blow inland, hit a hill and then turn into rain is as fantastical and enjoyable that it's her 'special dance' which caused the rain. Later on she'll decide which seems the more reasonable explanation.

As for 'tat' - I'm with you on no tat, but really, it's not FC who chooses the presents, it's you. If you don't want tat in the stockings, don't buy it... DD's getting some Happyland farm animals and people wrapped up individually and a couple of Brio trains dismantled and wrapped separately. And some hairclips, which probably do count as tat, but we lose them at the rate of one a day...

FizzyChristmasFairyDust · 21/12/2011 10:11

What Growlithe said - I love it :)

post · 21/12/2011 10:12

You know you say fc's about acquisitiveness, getting stuff etc, I actually think when we do fc we're teaching the dcs about GIVING, not getting. But it's the long game. I felt that I learned so much about the absolute joy of giving unconditionally, for no reward other than because it feels so bloody good to give, from my parents, who did the fc thing simply, not going over the top with stuff (we never had a lot of money), and then, as I got older, rather than being devastated I had a seamless transition into being the older sister who joined the adult world of creating for my younger sisters, then my own kids, the same thrill I'd had, and taking enormous pleasure in giving without payback, or thanks, because I don't need it to enjoy giving. And I learned to be REALLY grateful to my parents for it, when I was, say, 10, rather than 4, but in a very profound way, and I'm stil SO grateful for what they did.

I don't think you're mean, or wrong, if you don't do it. But it was a hugely valuable experience for me, and I really believe that some things you learn not from being told to 'get it' straight away, but from being on the receiving end of it.

RitaMorgan · 21/12/2011 10:13

You can "do" Father Christmas without lying to children though. Another poster mentioned Peppa Pig - children know she isn't real but are still excited to meet her. We are taking the same tack with Father Christmas. He isn't real, but he is a great story/character and a fun make-believe game at Christmas.

hardboiledpossum · 21/12/2011 10:14

My parents never once told us that FC would only come if we were good. I don't ever remember believing in him but it was all such a fun game that I'm glad my parents indulged me. From burning letters in the fire, to Santa's foot prints in the soot from the chimney it was all a magical game.

Theas18 · 21/12/2011 10:24

We never managed to tooth fairly effectively. Our tooth fairly is a bad one, lazy, forgetful and slow to get round, often not reaching us till after breakfast. THe kids sussed fast and didn't care!

We do love FC and it is so magic even now with big kids who clearly know it's us - DS makes pointed comments - I predict this years will be " I see FC is shopping at aldi, ... we like lindt reindeer but we also like THIS reindeer" LOL

But Norks is right the best bit is the "oh granny FC dropped this.... wow it's for you" that is fabulous!

StitchingMoss · 21/12/2011 10:25

I'm amazed by all these adults who were so 'damaged' by finding out your parents 'lied' to you about FC - you must be delicate little flowers! Hmm

nikon1968 · 21/12/2011 12:11

My dad used to say to me that when the ice cream man rang his bell he has run out of ice cream.

Needless to say I have not spoken or seen him for 37 years.

I WILL NEVER GET OVER IT. [FSAD]

nikon1968 · 21/12/2011 12:13

The above post was a joke is case some of you are worried about me. Smile

perceptionreality · 21/12/2011 12:17

For me it was the deliberate sustained lying over a number of years that was the problem.

We all perceive things differently, you know.

FahQuenelleItsNearlyChristmas · 21/12/2011 12:19

It's a myth that Father Christmas was invented by the Coca Cola company. You shouldn't believe everything you hear Xmas Wink

pictish · 21/12/2011 12:20

Oh goodie - another Christmas misery.

Xmasbaby11 · 21/12/2011 12:21

You don't need to threaten your DD. My parents never did. Santa was just another fantasy that as a child I loved believing in, along with Easter Bunny, fairies, unicorns, witches etc. I think it's good for developing a child's imagination and to have a bit of innocent magic!

I can't believe anyone was seriously upset to find out that Santa or other fantasies didn't exist? I don't know anyone who felt lied to - it's just part of the magic of childhood, which doesn't last long after all.

The associations of bribery and consumerism could be for Xmas in general, not Santa. You can create your own customs and associations. A small stocking, not an overflowing pillio case, etc.

CharlotteBronteSaurus · 21/12/2011 12:23

meh. do what you like.
but it doesn't have to be coercive. Our FC believes in unconditional gift giving because I can't be arsed with threats--. DD1 knows all the "be good or FC will not come" is just a trick some mummies like to use. And our stockings don't contain plastic tat bought just to fill them up, just normal toys, undies, stationery that we'd give anyway.

lockets · 21/12/2011 12:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hulababy · 21/12/2011 12:26

Once again - Coca Cola did not invent FC Xmas Hmm That is a myth.

As for it being a lie - It's a story. It's a bit of magical make believe.

And do you never ever tell you children things that may not be entirely true? Not ever? If so I am very surprised. Never met a parent yet who has managed that!

And I do wonder if those that felt somehow betrayed and hurt about finding out FC was a lie have other issues with their relationship with their parents. I can't , for the life of me, see how anyone could really think there parents were bad people for wanting to make Christmas more special to them by going a long with amagical story that has existed for years. But them as I said before, I have never known anyone in real life to feel this way. Only ever on MN - it cannot be a very common feeling imo. The vast majority of people don't think it was a bad thing or had any negative feeling towards their parents ime.

Santageekmum · 21/12/2011 12:30

Hula baby - do you mean FC was created by coca cola or not?

I posted up thread this website Snopes cokelore which explains it fully. Sorry if you are already aware of this.

Hulababy · 21/12/2011 12:31

I mean that Coca Cola did not invent FC.

It is a myth wheedled out every year that they did invent him. They didn't.

pictish · 21/12/2011 12:35

Coca Cola came up with the red and white suit - they did not invent Santa Claus....they dressed our modern day interpretation of him. And so fucking what?

StinkyWhizzleteats · 21/12/2011 12:35

OP I think what you're doing is fine.

I don't think it has to be all or nothing though.

Children can believe in something even if they logically know it's not real. For instance DD who is 4 knows there's no such thing as monsters. But she's still scared of them when it's dark.

As I child I knew Father Christmas wasn't really real but I still believed he brought my presents on christmas morning Grin

Not sure I'm explaining it very well, but I think very small children don't have such fixed ideas about things like adults do. They live in an imaginary world most of the time (well my 4 yo does!) and I think the real and imaginary worlds can merge quite easily. It doesn't have to one or the other - it can be imaginary AND real IFKWIM.

FahQuenelleItsNearlyChristmas · 21/12/2011 12:40

pictish Coca Cola didn't even come up with the suit. There are loads of pictures of FC/Santa in his suit that predate the CC pictures. I posted the same link as Santageekmum. And also Radio 4 told me at the weekend, and they never lie.

ByTheWay1 · 21/12/2011 12:42

We did do the Father Christmas/Santa bit til my eldest was 5 and the MIL scared the hell out of her and her sister by saying Santa comes into your bedroom and sees if you are asleep before he leaves any presents.!!! She no longer wanted ANY presents til her daddy explained that it was pretend, it was him really and she had nothing to be frightened of.

So we don't "do" Santa either and life is still good.