Are we the only ones doing without Father Christmas?

[Octaviapink]

We thought about the whole Father Christmas thing - telling the children there's a man with a big beard who lives at the North Pole (or Lapland or wherever) who comes down the chimney on Christmas Eve and leaves presents for good children - and frankly I couldn't stomach it. Lots of reasons:

1. Lying to the children. My DCs trust me, and if I tell DD a thing she knows it's so. I've never lied to her. I don't want this to be the first time and about something so crass.
2. The Victorian boogyman aspect of it - it seems to belong to an age where if you did bad things someone would 'get' you. I have friends who pretend their security system is Father-Christmas-cam and that he's watching them the whole time to see how good they are.
3. They find out pretty soon at school that it's not true, so you're probably only looking at a three or four year lifespan for the whole thing anyway when they genuinely believe (IME a lot of children pretend to believe when they're older so they get presents).
4. I still remember how devastated and disbelieving I was when I found out.
5. Buying a load of useless tat for stockings.

DD is 2.8 so this is the first time it's been possible to tell her things about Christmas. Anything we started now we'd have to continue. It just seems pointless and in some respects rather cruel. I'd rather we gave the children presents from us and concentrated on other aspects of Christmas. So Father Christmas is just a man depicted on some of the Christmas cards and nothing special.

I do feel vaguely guilty about the fact it'll probably be DD at school telling other children it's not real.

Are we the only ones?

AFAIK there were already images of FC dressed in red and white even before the CC ads.

Windingdong - the poem 'Twas The Night Before Christmas talks about St Nicholas rather than FC. Also, my philosophical reasoning is not flawed - there's a big difference between believing something is true and pretending something is true. One is suspension of disbelief - which is what's going on when we play spacemen - and the other is faith.

I do appreciate what several of you have said about me sounding as though I thought I was superior and judgmental and I can honestly promise that that was not my intention at all. I am not and would not judge anyone for how they talk about things like Christmas to their children, nor am I proselytising about the way we're planning to do it. I really just wanted to find out if there was anyone more or less likeminded out there and sort of see what they do and whether we're condemning the children to some sort of deprived life by not doing the whole shebang. My original post wasn't clear enough about what I was looking for, maybe.

Thank you to those who've read between the lines and suggested alternative ways of doing the whole thing. Thank you also to those who've suggested I'm uptight, superior, oversensitive, smug, friendless, bitter, cynical, overanalytical, mean, hypocritical, pretentious and unfair - none of which is as bad as I thought I was going to get.

"Children can believe in something even if they logically know it's not real. For instance DD who is 4 knows there's no such thing as monsters. But she's still scared of them when it's dark."

I think this is very true. It was the same for me. My parents told me the story, and obviously there was the imagery everywhere, but they didn't try to convince me it was actually literally true, and I never truly thought it was. But I still loved it, and liked the idea of FC bringing my presents, and would sometimes lie in bed on Christmas eve listening 'just in case' :)

I'd probably take that approach with mine. Don't see the need for an elaborate deception, or getting upset if they 'find out', but it's a lovely story to tell, and telling it isn't 'lying' any more than all the other children's stories and fairy tales etc that you tell them. And I think most children have enough imagination to find the magic in it without their parents trying to drum literal belief into them.

Yes it's the difference between believing and pretending - that's a good way of putting it - though for small children the lines between those two things can become somewhat blurred. And there's nothing wrong with that of course.

Massively over thinking this, OP. Massively.

I can't help feeling you are depriving them and they will resent you for it Op.

similar thread here

i think it is a shame that you don't want your child to experience the magic of christmas.

My mother said I was distraught when I found out she'd lied top me about FC. So I'm not going to do it for ds. He will get gifts, from Mummy and Daddy

As I said to someone on another thread. You are overthinking things.

@lockets - I'm a marketing director at the moment (have been finishing up my mat leave) and qualified as a childminder a couple of months ago. Come January I'll be switching hats and doing more minding and moving to marketing consultancy on a self-employed basis. Hope that's not too much detail but you'd taken the time to read my profile and you asked so thought I'd clarify.

I do hope that you point out to any of the parents you mind for that you are a right miserable mare

Questioning the Santa lie is a bigger sin on Mumsnet than anything

OP, I think it's fine not to do the lying, threatening etc etc but still join in with a bit of the magic. You can read the stories, sing the songs, have a suprise stocking on the end of the bed without trying to convince your DD of anything.

Your DD might want to believe when she's little - just like little children like to believe in dragons and fairies. Just tell her Father Christmas is magic and pretend. At 2 she won't care if it's real or not, she'll just enjoy the game.

You're not the only one OP, a good friend of mine has opinions so similar to yours I wondered for a second whether she'd outed herself!

We're not doing FC either (although DS is only just turning 2 so is a bit young yet to understand).

We've told him the story of St Nicholas and that's what we plan to tell him about as he gets older. We're Christians so we tend to focus on the religious side of the celebrations anyway.

I don't get the people who say that Christmas isn't magical without FC. I absolutely love Christmas. It's amazing and really magical. But for me that magical-ness is to do with other aspects of Christmas, particularly Christ's birth, not to do with a fat man in red.

I never believed in FC as a child (our family pretended our stocking presents were from FC but didn't make a big deal of FC) and as far as I can judge, my experience of Christmas was (and is still) far more 'magical' and much less cynical than others I've talked to about it.

Incidentally, what I do hate is that lots of random strangers ask DS "So, what's Father Christmas going to give you this year?" Irrespective of whether you think FC or your parents give you the presents, I thought the whole point was you don't know what you're going to get you till you actually open the parcels.

You're not the only one OP.

I agree with your sentiments and also have not done Santa with my kids. for anyone to say that this is removing the magic of Christmas is ridiculous. My DC are so excited and love Christmas, they love knowing that the gifts are from people who know and love them. We looked into the history of Santa and read the stories together about St Nicholas to show that it is just a nice story based an historical figure.

I get fed up that everywhere, at school, nursery etc, they are talking about santa and writing Santa lists. Personally, I am not comfortable lying to my children.

The whole reason we give gifts is that it is Jesus' birthday we are celebrating. Christmas has become too commercialised and I know one child from a very poor family with major problems who got fancy socks for his Christmas present and then was so upset questioning where he'd been naughty when santa brought nice things to all his other friends.

Christmas can be fab and amazing without Santa claus.

Xpost angels but I agree with everything you wrote!

Having a stocking or present at the end of your bed has nothing to do with whether or not your family does Father Christmas. We always had a big 'keep us occupied' preset at the end of our bed, and I often tried to stay away and see my father put it there/open it up really really early (never managed it!). My cousins had a whole pillow case of presents, and we do stockings for our children. None of us did FC.

Never felt deprived or that Christmas was magic less. I also wonder what happens to your Christmases when your children grow out of believing in FC. Does it all not feel terribly flat?

I agonized over whether to do FC when dd was 2. The choice was taken away from me by nursery so that was it. I am, like you, deeply uncomfortable with using it as a threat, and I do worry about what happens when they're older.

But, you know, I have the same feeling, worse actually, when I think that one day they are going to find out about war and murder and death and how horrible the world can be. I'm in no hurry for that time to come and I'm just going to take the magic where I can find it!

Sorry to be depressing!

Another one who is wondering how you will handle this with the children that cone into your home? Will you be keeping your child at home?

We've never done Father Christmas, even when the children were little.

LovesBloominChristmas, I expect we'll talk to DS about how lots of people like to pretend that FC is true because it's fun to go along with the story.

Children have to deal all the time with people who believe different things from them/their families. Not everyone DS meets is a Christian. Not everyone he meets thinks that being a SAHM is a valid career choice, although I certainly do. I could go on. IMO part of helping your child develop is to help them understand that people are different, think differently and do things differently.

I do think it's important that children can trust that what adults say is true (even if it isn't all of the truth that could be told IYSWIM). When DH was in reception, his teacher told him there were no numbers smaller than one. His dad's a mathematician and had taught him about minus numbers. So after that he didn't believe what his teacher told him about maths & numbers as he assumed she was either not telling the truth or stupid. It's a trivial example, but it definitely had an effect on DS's relationship with the teacher and how much he trusted her afterwards.

I swear I reads this exact same thread last year - do you bring it out every festive season OP? As to whether you're the only ones not doing father xmas -does it matter? Do you care what others do? Do I care actually .... no. Bye then til next year

Yes, I also wonder why people post 'I don't do FC' at Christmas. It's not as if they';ll change their mind when everyone agrees it's miserable at best.

Can't quite imagine that maths and FC are the same, unless Pythagoras now leaves triangles under one's pillow.

"I do think it's important that children can trust that what adults say is true" - that's quite an interesting statement from a Christian though isn't it? I don't believe what you're telling your children about god is true - what if they don't either when they're older?