Are we the only ones doing without Father Christmas?

[Octaviapink]

We thought about the whole Father Christmas thing - telling the children there's a man with a big beard who lives at the North Pole (or Lapland or wherever) who comes down the chimney on Christmas Eve and leaves presents for good children - and frankly I couldn't stomach it. Lots of reasons:

1. Lying to the children. My DCs trust me, and if I tell DD a thing she knows it's so. I've never lied to her. I don't want this to be the first time and about something so crass.
2. The Victorian boogyman aspect of it - it seems to belong to an age where if you did bad things someone would 'get' you. I have friends who pretend their security system is Father-Christmas-cam and that he's watching them the whole time to see how good they are.
3. They find out pretty soon at school that it's not true, so you're probably only looking at a three or four year lifespan for the whole thing anyway when they genuinely believe (IME a lot of children pretend to believe when they're older so they get presents).
4. I still remember how devastated and disbelieving I was when I found out.
5. Buying a load of useless tat for stockings.

DD is 2.8 so this is the first time it's been possible to tell her things about Christmas. Anything we started now we'd have to continue. It just seems pointless and in some respects rather cruel. I'd rather we gave the children presents from us and concentrated on other aspects of Christmas. So Father Christmas is just a man depicted on some of the Christmas cards and nothing special.

I do feel vaguely guilty about the fact it'll probably be DD at school telling other children it's not real.

Are we the only ones?

triangles

"I do think it's important that children can trust that what adults say is true" is a bit of a weird statement. Children want to trust that statements like "I'll be at the playground gate when you come out of school" are true. They neither want nor need to trust statements about stories. Otherwise my ds wouldn't be delighted by the threat of being sent up the (non-existent) chimney. Children need fairy tales in order to make sense of reality. Whether your fairy tale is supplied by Disney, tradition, or the Bible, it gives children a lot more than simply 'lies' that need debunking.

Its about magic-starlight and bells and snowflakes and laughter.Father Christmas is real in every place where people exchange a 'Merry Christmas'and a smile.He is the special feeling of excitement and goodwill and wanting to give to others.When my dc were beginning to question the physical reality of Santa I told them that he was the real true spirit of Christmas and so was always very real indeed.not tinsel and canned music-just magic.

When my dgd found out about FC she asked my ds,'Daddy you have been lying to me all this time havent you?''In a way' he replied.She was delighted and said,'That was a great lie-I am going to tell it to my children when I grow up!'

I have an 18 year old ds who I have always been very straight with. As a rule I do not lie to him and tell him what I believe to be true and give him the full facts as I know them and always have done since he was a little kid. I did debate the whole FC thing when he was younger but decided on balance that it wasnt a lie and it was just some fun. when he found out aged 8 he started crying and he was hurt that I lied to him. I then asked him which would he have preferred if I had not done the whole fc thing or done things the way I did. He softened completely as he realised that I had done all those things for him and went to so much trouble. He said he was glad I had done it and thanked me and that it was even more special, the fact that it was me that had bought him all the stuff and not FC. I have a 3 year old and a 2 year old who have FC calling on Saturday night. But then I have also told them that it is the birth of Jesus Christ that we are celebrating and I guess there are those who would say that is an even bigger lie but it is something I believe.

The only people I know who don't do Father Christmas are very fervent Christians. They want their children to believe in Jesus who they can't see for themselves and don't want to muddle it with other characters (Father Christmas, tooth fairy, etc) who they also cannot see.

All the Atheists, Hindus, Muslims, I know do Father Christmas in some form.

In terms of the lying thing, there is quite a body of research into the whole area of the importance of story and exploring feelings and emotions through stories. My reading on it has encouraged me to immerse my children in as many stories, traditions, cultures as possible - Father Christmas is just one element of this.

I think this might be an issue within you op that runs deeper than you think

always try to be self aware and life is a balance

i sometimes feel uncomfortable with aspects of xmas but i should not project that onto dc. make believe is an important and normal part of childhood and most children enjoy the magic and fun of father christmas

the commercial side does worry me sometimes but awkwardness around giving and receiving gifts can reflect poor self image. i doubt children are in any way damaged by christmas in an otherwise loving family. but if you project your issues onto dc that could be damaging

My DS told me a month ago he doesn't believe in FC and didn't last year either, he thought we believed and carried on pretending he did too
For the record, he has never mentioned us lying to him, he's not traumatised in any way and is having a great time keeping up the pretence with his younger sister & cousins.
This year we are going to track santa on the NORAD site, stick the letters up the chimney as normal & leave out the mince pie & whisky for FC (because mother christmas is pg & can't even smell alcohol right now!).
It's just some fun & makes a lovely time of the year a little more magical.

My parents told me FC wasn't real because I was so scared of him coming in our bedroom We had stockings on the end of the bed, not by the chimney. We still has stockings afterwards though. I certainly loved Christmas and don't think I lost out on any 'magic'. I don't remember any discussion of FC with anyone at school, but I do remember telling my younger sister he wasn't real and being told off.

LondonMumsie, you're spot on. I think it'll be hard for DS to make up his own mind about the evidence upon which we believe in Jesus if I've confused him by telling him FC is true when I'm convinced he isn't. I want him to know that I only tell him things are true if I do in fact believe they're true.

I agree entirely with what you say about stories - I just don't think I have to say I believe them when I don't.

This has been a fascinating thread so thanks to everyone who's posted. I had no idea that Father Christmas was such a big deal to people. I used to be a primary teacher and I don't remember FC ever being the particular focus of Christmas with either children or adults, but maybe I'm misremembering.

Merry Christmas everyone.

I think that's the interesting balance. My parents were not 'fervent' Christians (I'm not totally sure what that means, perhaps the more evangelical types?). But Christmas was very much a religious festival to them, and therefore to us growing up. There wasn't really any need to layer Father Christmas on the top as we already had plenty of traditions and it was a very special time.

I an an atheist now, and I think that the difference between telling your children about Jesus and telling them about FC, is that with one you are sharing a belief that you yourself hold. When my parents shared with me their Christian beliefs it was because it was part of the foundation of their lives, and they wanted it to be the foundation of mine.

Families who really embrace Father Christmas it seems to me tell their children about it in a fairly similar way to the Christian stories, but the difference is that they themselves do not believe. Now you could well say (and some here have) that this is no different from other make believe/stories. However I don't think that it is, because no one tells their child that Cinderella is going to visit them, or that Red Riding Hood, or the Gruffallo or any other fictional character is real.

Having said that I have no problem at all with other families traditions. It did use to annoy me that so many strangers would ask/tell my children about Santa when they were younger (way more that anyone asked them about god) and I do personally think it a little odd the lengths some families go to make it all real, but if it's fun for them and their children then no problem.

My mother didn't do Father Christmas when we were kids.

She is an utterly miserable cow regarding Christmas and none of my siblings (or myself) will have her over for Christmas cos' she spoils it with her misery.She has no Christmas magic.

Don't turn into her OP. A little magic makes it just that more special. I was in my 20's when I got my first Christmas stocking and it was the bestest Christmas ever.

I don't use Father Christmas as threat. I refer to him because my DS2r old loves the idea of Father Christmas (day care to thank for that...) and it makes him so happy.

I have 3 teenagers and I can assure you that they have not been traumatised by the Father Christmas Concept. They still trust me too.

I find it seriously weird to deliberately sabotage the magic that is Father Christmas. Really I do... I just don't 'get' it. My kids are older now (23 and 20) and OP when yours get to this age, you might seriously regret not buying into that magic.

You know how well you have done with Christmas, traditions, FC and all of that when they get to the age mine are now. They SERIOUSLY love Christmas, they don't want to change anything because us as parents wove a magic spell and at the time FC was part of it. Even now we talk about FC in the third person (!) and even when they obviously slowly realised, they never talked about it being a 'lie' as they wanted to carry on with the magic. Why would you not want that?

They have both already said that when they have children they are going to do it EXACTLY as I did it with them because they love Christmas and all it entails so much.

OP... have you ever thought how your DCs might feel when they are older? Might they not look back and think... why didn't I have that illusion just for a few years... I think they will. Those special years fly by and it seems like yesterday for me when me and the DCs were putting out biscuits and milk for Santa etc... I wouldn't swap that experience with them for the world.

If the magic of Christmas is wrapped up in the jolly red fellow, no wonder it is a depressing time of year, followed by debt, divorce etc.

The true meaning of Christmas is what is compelling and life changing.

What is compelling and life changing to me is giving my kids a magical and wonderful christmas, when i had a horrible and abusive childhood

You can have a magical and wonder filled Christmas without "Santa". We have our family traditions, we give and receive gifts, we feast and make merry, we spend time with each other and our extended families, we count our blessings and share what little we have with whoever happens to be there.

Nothing says an hairy old bloke in a red suit has to have anything to do with it.

I think one of our key jobs as parents is to give our dcs a childhood that is memorable. FC is part of that.

On a similar theme I remember vividly my 3rd birthday and listening to my grandma's friend playing the grand piano in this massive room in a posh hotel (realised when I was older it must have been a ballroom). He told me there were fairies living in the grand piano and gave me a lovely silver engraved bracelet. Over 40 years later it is still one of my favourite childhood memories.

To be pedantic FC could be part of your happy childhood memories. Or not. Many families have very happy Christmases without including Santa stuff. I have lovely memories of Christmas (and other happy events) and I wouldn't have wanted my parents to do Christmases any differently (and as their Christmas celebrations haven't changed for the last 40 odd years that's lucky really!).

The important thing is to have a happy Christmas (if possible), surely how you do that doesn't really matter?

I am 29, have NEVER believed in Father Christmas, and ALWAYS seen Christmas as a magical time.
My parents never told me he was real, and I always knew it was my mum sneaking in in the morning - and that 'Father Christmas' was my parents. I don't think you need to have FC to have a magical xmas.

I have 2 DCs (aged 2yo and 3mo) and will not be telling them that Santa is real.

I'm with you OP!

We don't and won't do Santa either OP.
I'm with you. Unnecessary I reckon. Lots of other non present based magical Christmas stuff to be done

My kids believe in Santa. We don't make a huge thing of him really but he does deliver a stocking of gifts to each person in our house. The gift are far from tat - rather nice small gifts and practical much needed items. The main gifts are given directly by friends and family but we see the gifts as just one small side of Xmas. I really don't like the high level of materialism - it seems so crazy to give tons on one day. We prefer to think about the reasons behind the celebration.

They know about St Nick and the true stories behind him. They see Santa and st Nick as linked in many ways. The eldest is 8 and will probably realise the truth quite soon but I know she won't be hurt or upset. She knows we are very honest people and that it is just a bit of harmless fun (I think you must be very over sensitive to have reacted that way to finding out). She will soon really enjoy helping me create the Santa magic for her younger siblings by helping wrap the stocking gifts etc.

I think that children know from a very early age that Santa isn't real but enjoy the fact that its the one time it's okay to be economical with the truth.

Ds1 (7) is a very honest boy but this morning he had a very elaborate tale about following Father Christmas down the stairs and watching him eat the baklava that we had left for him. He doesn't normally tell tall tales so it would suggest to me that the children recognise it as being a story right from the beginning.

I'm just struck by the fact that you never lie to your children - what about lies to protect them from maybe knowledge of something bad they don't really need to know yet eg illness or possible illness etc? Fwiw I don't see Santa as a lie just as some posters have said a story bringing magic to childhood.

also imo most children when they realise its not true are in the way of children instantly impressed with themselves for realising and for now knowing something the younger ones don't !!!