I know it's wicked, but I'm basically wishing these years away

[CanIRetireYet]

I have 2 DC, one in primary and another toddler. I work part time in a very stressful job.

I am not enjoying this bit of my life in the slightest. I was thinking the other day about how many days I have probably enjoyed since becoming a parent and I could think of 3 (with holidays, Christmases and birthdays being the worst of all).

I can't bear the lack of sleep, the constant cooking & cleaning, watching my earnings going nowhere, someone always needing me, the utter mind-numbing boredom of childrens' games and books, feeling my once quick and clever mind turning to porridge. Looking in the mirror and seeing a bright young woman has been replaced by a frowning mousey figure with stained clothes. My body is so tired from fetching and carrying all the time. The constant going up and down the stairs...

I am basically living in hope for the day when my kids are old enough to occupy themselves a little, maybe sleep through most nights, perhaps even make their own drinks and snacks.

I know it is terrible but I am basically wishing these years over and hoping that I emerge from this dark tunnel with some energy remaining.

I think perhaps I'm not supposed to be a parent and now it's too late. People say "Yes, but then you see their little smiles and it's all worth it" and I just think, no, no that really doesn't ring a bell with me at all.

Is it just me? I have had depression in the past but this feels different.

OP, I was in a similar situation a few years ago when my youngest was a terrible sleeper. I was exhausted and had little enthusiasm for anything. I went to my gp thinking I had anaemia or some other problem. The gp was lovely. She made me feel much better, basically saying that it was hardly surprising I felt like that given how little sleep I was getting and looking after two young children. We had a really good talk and she offered for me to come back and talk further if I wanted, or to see a counsellor. But actually just having someone acknowledge that it was normal to be feeling as I was was a huge help. Would recommend seeing a sympathetic gp, made a big difference to me.

Well Mine are 9 and 11 and I am now desperately trying for another as I don't feel needed enough anymore. Take this weekend for example... DD went swimming and DS was at a party, so myself and DH had the house to ourselves. All I could think of to do was either go to the pub, or spend the afternoon in bed, and I was turned down for both!!! Give me a whiney kid to keep me company any day of the week.
The way the OP talks I am surprised you had kids at all, as you can't be maternal at all, which is absolutely fine by the way. You need some fun I reckon

Not enjoying it doesn't make you a bad parent. I laugh when colleagues tell me they are exhausted from a bad nights sleep (singular). Or at my MIL suggestion of setting up a mini gym in my lounge at 10pm using waterbottles and rope?! to relieve some of my stress.

Its ok not to enjoy it just dont let on to the DC they cant remember much before age 5 anyhow.

I'm sorry for the offence I have caused. I do not think that all mums who enjoy the early stages of their DCs lives are thick.

working9to5. Your posts did feel very pointed and I felt that they might apply to some others on teh thread, I certainly felt as if they applied to me.

Your 17:50 post said that people who read while looking after children were lacking in creativity and were not as clever as they might think. I decided to do an OU course to have something for "me" while I was struggling with the day to day reality of looking after children, sometimes I pick up the book while they're with me, why be so harsh about that? Whatever people need to get them through is OK by me.

You also said "Having said all that, the wisest of people know how to enjoy each ordinary moment as it is." and on a thread full of people who are struggling to enjoy the "moments" with their children it seems tactless.

Also you said "f you are going to be reductive of women's experience, you would find yourself in good company with those who would consider chimpanzees and people with disabilities to be "monotonous" and "repetitive", too ." and again I find looking after small children monotonous and repetitive, I think there are many on the thread who do, that's part of the problem that many of us have. To say that makes me and others who feel like this basically deeply unpleasant people is really harsh. We're all doing our best, not everyone can enjoy looking after children and it takes a lot to post on these threads, which I so often to try and support people in the same boat. There's little RL help as it's very hard to admit to others about this, they often react badly. I just think what you said was tactless and TBH it made me feel like shit, when I only came on here to try and help.

I have found this thread very interesting. I have two DCs - aged 4 and 2, the eldest goes to nursery mornings, the youngest doesn't go anywhere yet. I have been struggling if am honest on and off since the youngest was born, I don't like admitting it and I feel guilty for even saying that I am struggling as I don't really feel justified in saying it, iykwim. I have a hands-on DP and both the DCs are healthy, I look at families whose children are ill or who have Special Needs and I feel ashamed at feeling like I am struggling.

I work full-time (although very flexible hours so am at home quite a lot) and I also study part-time and some days I am so knackered/stressed/run-down to the bare minimum that I wake up in the morning and think 'Oh God, here we go again' .

I have been thinking for a while that I probably should go to the GP but I don't want to live a life on anti-depressants and turn into my mother who has been suffering from depression or anxiety her whole adult life.

I bend over backwards to make sure my DCs are unaware of this. We go out and do lots of active stuff all the time - museums, soft-play, parks, theatre, etc as again I am afraid of turning into my Mum who also has mild agrophobia. I also lived in a house growing up where mess was not tolerated so I make a conscious effort to allow messy play, arts and crafts etc. I was very aware of my mother's depression as a child and it has left quite a mark on me, tbh, although I would never tell her, I hate the idea of my children growing up in a house which has that cloud hanging over it.

I co-sleep with both the DCs so get kicked quite a lot during the night and have recently started sleeping on the sofa and have asked DP to sleep with them as I need a few uninterrupted nights, even if it's not in a bed!

My job is also quite stressful but I can't do much about that: a) financially we need two salaries and b) I have worked damn hard and invested a lot of time and money in my education to get to this point.

Am not really sure what I am trying to say but wanted to let the OP know that you are not alone!

I don't think it's unusual to not get so much pleasure out of 'significant' events like Christmas/birthdays etc as the expectations are so high and kids get very wound up. The best and most relaxing times we have as a family I think are either all jumping on the bed, on the beach running around or having a picnic in the park and playing with a ball (and having a few cheeky plastic glasses of wine!)

Guitargirl - go to the GP it wont necessarily end in medication. Its one of the last taboos to admit struggling as a parent or gasp not enjoy it. I saw my GP and said I wanted help with no pills he did.

I too work/study/parent/partner/drink wine from plastic cups if I get the chance

I felt pretty much like this when my DC's were little. It just seemed like endless drudgery - and I loved them to bits and don't even mind household chores

It does get better and I did enjoy them as they got older and actually looked forward to the school holidays. Ok the summer one when I could sit and read the paper while they played in the park or swam at the lido.

I now dread becoming a grandma too soon as I don't want to do it all again........

littlewaltham - thank you, I have been thinking about it for a while, I just wasn't sure what a GP could practically do which doesn't involve medication - counselling?

Not counselling. GP told me to approach it as if I had a broken leg or infection or the like. We worked out a 6 week plan together with tasks and times. Including all the usuals such as exercising etc.

So if I had 30 mins exercise booked in (walk with headphones in my lunch break, swim on Sunday morning etc) I had to drop everything else leave to DP or another and do it as I would if I have to do physio for a broken leg.

Not sure what would help you but some of my goals were to join a new club (I had just moved to a new area). Start reading again for pleasure rather than study. The tasks were no longer than 30 mins at a time. Also included sleep! even if it was 20 mins lying there worrying about all the things I wasn't getting done becasue I was busy ticking off my 20 min sleep task.

I have one DS and I don't feel it to extreme that some of the posters and the OP do but I definitely feel it at times. some weeks a lot more than others. I feel just like the OP does sometimes when I think maybe I'm just not designed to be a mother, but I know this isn't true. In fact we're now ttc #2. People are different, and even putting all the bad stuff like lack of sleep aside, some people enjoy being around children alot more than others do.

I adore my DS, he is the centre of my world. But I am so thankful I have a supportive DH who will take over stuff when I come home, and will do lots with him at the weekend so I can do other things (like housework, cooking, nothing sexy and exciting!). My MIL's and SIL's are real baby and children people, and think I'm a little odd for not feeling like them, but it's just not me, and never will be. I can't change that.

I also find it terrifying that there is someone who depends on me entirely (I know DH too) so I always have to be "switched on", no matter how crappy I may be feeling physically or emotionally. Motherhood is very very scary indeed.

Since having DS I have come to realise what superwomen / men single parents are!

But OP if these feeling have taken over your life and are sapping every bit of enjoyment out of it, please go and speak to your GP. It sounds like you can no longer see the woods for the trees and you need a bit of help. Maybe CBT (which you can do online, once your doc has refered you) could help you try and change the way you look at your life and your time with your DC's, so you can see that there is some enjoyment there?

Good luck

'I feel there is something at the root of my dissatisfaction'

Yes OP and I would bet it goes back to your own childhood and your relationship with your mother

Counselling is an excellent idea. Good luck

littlewaltham - that makes sense, yes, thank you. I think exercise would help actually, have been thinking about going swimming.

Worth trying anything if it doesn't work you've lost nothing. Reclaiming a little piece of me has helped no end. Still knackered but gradually becoming far more content, although still not the slightest bit stimulated by a game of play doh. Off to sleep. Good Luck.

Lot of cod psychology / armchair doctoring on this thread.

Oh, and for the record Working9While5 Jane Goodall did not write childrens' books. Jane Goodall is a Scientist who has revolutionised the way humans view primates, in the world of Research.

Good. She can probably afford to pay a stupid person to look after her children for her.

She doesn't have any children - just out of interest how much do you charge?

Way out of your league, sweetheart.

If she doesn't have children, why did you mention her in the context of intelligent women staying at home with their children

I haven't read the whole thread but I'm right there with you - mum of a 3.5DS and 11month DD and I can do about 3 hours with them tops before I'm feeling my brain cells are melting out of my ears and am ready to stab myself in the arm with a fork to provide some light relief.

I job share with DH, and we do a half-day each (swap at 1pm - woe betide the person who's home late!). We both agree that the afternoon shift is the hardest because they hit you when you're tired and a bit more vulnerable. I'm always gasping for wine by 6pm.

We were even wondering whether to bother with a family holiday this year because at least at home we have some part time childcare and a cleaner. On holidays (HAS to be self catering - hotels with toddlers are hell) we have to do it all ourselves so there's no respite, and we're out of reach of known babysitters so you can't even get away in the evenings).

Repeat after me, 'this too will pass... this too will pass..' (and whilst you're at it , pass the wine )

Jane Goodall did write books, GorgeousX, in addition to revolutionising the way humans view primates.

1972 Grub: The Bush Baby (with H. van Lawick). Boston: Houghton Mifflin.
1988 My Life with the Chimpanzees New York: Byron Preiss Visual Publications, Inc. Translated into French, Japanese and Chinese. Parenting's Reading-Magic Award for "Outstanding Book for Children," 1989.
1989 The Chimpanzee Family Book Saxonville, MA: Picture Book Studio; Munich: Neugebauer Press; London: Picture Book Studio. Translated into more than 15 languages, including Japanese and Swahili. The UNICEF Award for the best children's book of 1989. Austrian state prize for best children's book of 1990.
1989 Jane Goodall's Animal World: Chimps New York: Macmillan.
1989 Animal Family Series: Chimpanzee Family; Lion Family; Elephant Family; Zebra Family; Giraffe Family; Baboon Family; Hyena Family; Wildebeest Family Toronto: Madison Marketing Ltd.
1994 With Love New York / London: North-South Books. Translated into German, French, Italian, and Japanese.
1999 Dr. White (illustrated by Julie Litty). New York: North-South Books.
2000 The Eagle & the Wren (illustrated by Alexander Reichstein). New York: North-South Books.
2001 Chimpanzees I Love: Saving Their World and Ours New York: Scholastic Press
2004 Rickie and Henri: A True Story (with Alan Marks) Penguin Young Readers Group

She also has one son, who she nicknamed Grub.

ISNT, my points were playing Devil's Advocate to GorgeousX's assertion that highly intelligent women would be likely to find children monotonous and repetitive - apologies if this was not clear. It was somewhat tongue in cheek, tbh.

The wisest people do find joy in everything - I'm not saying I do, but I can recognise that having the creativity and serenity to milk life for all it's worth is a Worthwhile Thing. I don't see why it's tactless to aspire to it, no matter how you feel.

I am hopeless at living in the moment and have had bouts of significant anxiety about, well, everything. None of this makes me any more or any less intelligent, I don't believe. I really envy people who see the good in everything. It doesn't mean I think people who can't (including myself!) should feel like shit about themselves.

I have a MASSIVE issue with seeing spending time with children as worthwhile being linked to intelligence. I think it's a terribly antifeminist point of view and that is what I find deeply unpleasant.

Why does it have to be so value-loaded? I was being deliberately provocative in response to GorgeousX's posts because she was suggesting that a "certain calibre" of woman who had a certain level of intelligence would find spending time with kids boring. This type of argument was used for many years to dissuade men from taking an active role in childrearing because it was "lesser".

The issue is that we seek to make time we spend with our children something it can never be. No one frets about zoning out on public transport or not being intellectually stimulated in traffic or when cutting one's toenails, it's just seen as part of life... yet I'm sure that there are many intelligent, creative people who would probably write songs or compose novellas in the car. Certainly, GorgeousX seemed to be talking about a very rare and unusual type of person in discussing their response to childcare. Why do people feel the need to question their emotional responses to changing a nappy? It's all conditioning... this horrible feeling people have of not being fulfilled every moment of the day. Most of us only realise what we have when it's gone, it's the human condition...

What I was doing was trying to show the opposite pole of a ludicrous argument e.g. view the little blighters as fodder for your Opus or research project. Like Piaget experimenting on his kid and writing a diary about it.

It's all nonsense. Sometimes kids are boring as hell, sometimes they're fun. They're just kids. We don't assess our personalities or intelligence in the same way if we have boring encounters in other areas of our lives, why buy into the guilt that we are supposed to be some sort of domestic goddess basking in the reflected glow of our children's loveliness?

bibbitybobbityhat - I nearly died laughing when I read your post

"I don't think you have to suffer a lot of sleep deprivation once your babies are past say 6-9 months, tbh."

you wouldn't last 2 minutes in this house, my 2 were the worst sleepers ever and I tried it all, cc, stairgate on bedroom door, sharing with siblings, on their own in a room, co sleeping, dragging mattresses around the upstairs to try to get some sleep somehow......

however they are fine now!!because they are older, not because of any magic thats happened, just because they grew up a little, not because I became a knowing supermum, just because they got older

so to anyone who thinks they have all the answers re babies/toddlers and sleep/behaviour, think twice, because sometimes your words come back to bite you on the arse

Oh my goodness me working9while5 IT WAS A JOKE - Yes, I have a warped sense of humour.

If any of those books you mentioned are childrens' books then I stand corrected.

I have apologised for offending you and other than that I don't see that there's much else I can do.

Believe me, I'm horrified that I've upset you so much that you have felt the need to post all that!

They are all children's books

I'm not upset, I just didn't see that it was funny to say that highly intelligent women would have difficulties spending time with kids. I appreciate people have different perspectives on humour!