Unconditional Parenting Support thread

[tillymama]

This thread is a safe place for those of us who have read the book and are trying to implement these ideas into our family lives.

It is also a place where people who are interested in the concept of Unconditional Parenting can find out more, and ask questions from those of us who use it day-to-day.

This is not a place to debate whether or not UP is the best thing since sliced bread, or a laughable concept. If you wish to debate, please start your own thread.

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Good starting points for people wanting to know what UP is all about:

The principles of UP
Alfie Kohn's website
Buy the book!

I used to leave the situation when hitting happened - on the basis that it wasn't safe to stay. Park situations work very well for this to sink in, esp if you are cold anyway! I also found 'do you want to have another go at being safe/gentle here, or do we need to leave?' gave him a way to recuperate the situation. I think having another chance to do something right once you've messed up once works wonders. (think this comes from How to talk rather than Alfie, though)

HI antimony, I think the school day, is such a long day, especially in the first year. It sounds like your son is behaving normally. My DS1 is 6 and in year 1. He still gets exhausted afterwards. I think reasurring and babying like othersideof the channel said really helps a lot. It is really difficult trying to juggle with the 2 ideas (ie conditional at shcool/ UP at home). We try to problem solve at hme about school stuff, which has helped.

Can anyone offer some advice about a sleep problem? I co-sleep with both my DDs (2 and 1) but am not happy about them both being in a bed together when i'm not there. Up until a week ago, my 2 year old quite happily settled in her own big girl bed and pottered through to join me and DD2 at about midnight. However, in the last week DD1 has got very upset if I've tried to put her in own bed. I've tried to talk around why and I don't think there is anything scaring her (her imaganiry dinasour friend is a very good monster scarer apparantly - good to know ) I can't just go to bed with them both as i need adult time in the eveings to get ready for the next day and just to be me for 5 mins without two velcro children. I have tried sitting in her room with her but she gets hysterical about mummy leaving if she falls asleep. Tonight she fell asleep in a heap on the floor and i've tucked her up on the sofa (I don't want to put her asleep in her bed as i'm worried about her reaction if she wakes up in the place she doesn't want to be iyswim). Poor DD1 is tired and grumpy and not enjoying life at the moment so I want to solve this problem. Any advice? Or obvious reasons I can't see? Thanks

Why is it that you are afraid of them both being in a bed together when you are not there?
One thing which helped us was explaining to dd WHY I wanted to go downstairs after she had fallen asleep. I can't remember exactly what age she was then, but I would explain that I would stay with her until she fell asleep and then I would go downstairs and do all the washing up. There was SO MUCH washing up to do and dh couldn't possibly do it ALL on his own. We agreed that if she needed me she would call and I would come up straight away, but that ANYWAY I would come up to bed VERY SOON and she could come and cuddle in my bed.
I have heard of a friend where they agreed with their child that they would talk very loud downstairs so that he could hear that they were there...

Thanks simic. dd1 is very affectionate - she likes to sleep with her arm wrapped tightly around my neck and her hand twinned in my hair. I'm just worried that she would snuggle into dd2 and strangle her, obviously not intentionally!
I live in a flat so when's she is bed she is actually next door to the kitchen and can hear me (I listen to woman's hour while i'm washing up) so she knows i've not run off.I always have said to her from when she started going into her own bed (she wanted her own big girl bed so it was self initated which is why i'm not sure why she is suddenly so against the idea) tha mummy would do the housework and then come and get her for snuggle time. I guess I'll just have to hope its just a phrase and it will resolve itself in time.

I would think that you're right, it will be a phase which will pass. I don't know how big her big-girl bed is, but we sometimes lie down next to dd in her bed until she's fallen asleep then get up again. My parents did this with me too. It doesn't solve the problem of her worrying that you will go away ... I suppose the only way to solve that is to forgo your adult time for a few nights and hope that by then the phase has passed. Just I don't know about you, but our house is in a total tip if we don't wash up etc. after the kids are in bed. So, I do get up again. I think she's just grown up used to the deception! :)

Sorry, that sounded bizarre ... I say "deception" because we lie down as if we're going to bed with her. But we have explained to her, and she has always known that we will get up when she has fallen asleep. So it's really more a kind of self-deception I think ... for the time when she's falling asleep, she has the feeling that we're going to bed with her.

Re bedtime - we do the same as Simic, lie down until he falls asleep then get up. But I can't offer any advice on the rest sorry, I only have one DC!

I would appreciate some more opinions/advice here please, sorry.

My friend came over this morning with her DS to play with my DS. They were playing quite nicely but there were some issues with my DS getting upset when my friend's DS played with some of his toys. I have always explained to him before friends come over that it is nice if the toys in the living room are shared, and if there is anything he doesn't want the friend to play with we will take it upstairs out of the way. That way I don't think I am forcing him to share everything as he gets the chance to take a few "special" things out of the way, but he's not stopping the other child having fun either.

Anyway, it was going ok until the friend's DS took a train that my DS had his eye on but hadn't got there to get it yet. DS was holding quite a large toy dinosaur in his other hand and cried in frustration/anger, and hit my friend's DS quite hard in the face with it :( I was mortified.

Friend's DS was ok, didn't even cry though it did leave a mark. But obviously I had to show DS that this isn't acceptable! I could see my friend was obviously shocked too. So I was quite sharp, said loudly "NO, DS", removed him from the room for a minute and then went in to see if my friend's DS was ok (he was). I then took my DS into another room, told him that I needed to take the dinosaur as it wasn't nice to hit people with it. DS was just crying for the dinosaur. I explained to him that his friend's DS would be sad, would have been hurt, and that hitting people with things isn't acceptable, etc etc. I went on for a bit I think but it didn't seem to be sinking in (though he does understand explanations) as he just cried for his dinosaur back. I said no because it wasn't for hitting. Eventually he asked to go back into the living room, I did say in the kitchen "do you think (friend's DS) might like to hear you say sorry?" but I didn't push it, he did say sorry but was still crying for the bloody dinosaur! I refused to give it back.

Then my friend distracted them both into something else, which I feel I should have done but I didn't want the friend's mum to think I was accepting this type of behaviour.
So I'm guessing the way I handled it wasn't particularly great or unconditional? But was I too harsh, or too soft? How would you have handled this? I know the best thing is to nip this sort of thing in the bud but I honestly tried, it happened so quickly - my friend and I are usually ok at diverting them with games.

Btw DS isn't far off 3.

Hi Cat, I totally relate to feeling you have to be seen to be disciplining/punishing your child to a degree that you think your friend expects... although I wonder whether perhaps you could have focused less on the hitting behaviour and more what led up to it? E.g. explained to your DS that he should take turns with the train, and focus on how if he's frustrated, what a better thing to do than hit is to express that feeling? It sounds like your DS hit as he didn't have any other way to deal with the emotions provoked, maybe? Rather than 'wanting' to hit, iyswim?

Thanks WildhoodChunder. I have thought about this before, as he does have a tendency to lash out when he's angry (usually at me or DH). I'm not sure what to suggest though other than "use words" or sometimes "hit a pillow/cushion" but as it is in the heat of the moment and not premeditated I don't know if this would work.

It is true that I do often worry that I need to be seen to discipline him, but also in this instance I felt he really shouldn't have done this, no excuse. It's difficult sometimes!

It is hard, isn't it? Do you think he can recognise the feelings before he lashes out? Can you see when he's getting wound up, and maybe ask him "are you starting to feel cross?" and maybe given the opportunity to verbalise it he might use words more, sort of acting as a prompt?

Sorry to interrupt guys but I found a link to a fascinating blog I think it was on this thread the other day and now I can't for the life of me find it. It was about a lovely family with 3 DC's and mum expecting DC4. They lived in a yurt and HE. I may be looking in the wrong place but if anyone knows what I'm talking about and can help me find it again I would be very grateful. Thanks

Hi everyone I was wondering if anyone could help me in how to deal with a situation if it arises again. My older sister and her 18 month old are staying with me (she is has a very conditonal style of parenting which causes a lot of tension) and last night my 2 year was overtired, overexcitied and hungry so started lashing out at my 1 year old and my nephew. Normally, I would remove her somewhere quiet and read a story before rejoining the others but i was cooking and couldn't leave the kitchen or have the 2 year old in with me as i had the oven open. In the end, I had to put her in her room on her own as I just couldn't see a solution. She was understandably distressed at being abondonded and I was unhappy that i had to retort to this - was there anything else I could have done? Thanks

Sounds like a stressful situation! Three little children just before the evening meal. Aargh!

I would probably have given some mine some apple and put the TV on so I could cook the meal in peace.

Normally I would have put babs in the sling on my back (out of reach of toddler and oven) and toddler in front of TV but she would have still attacked my nephew! My poor nephew doesn't interact with other children as my sister doesn't want him 'picking up germs and bad habits' so he's not use to rough and tumble. Oh and I couldn't have given snacks as my sis won't let her son eat outside of set times and he would have gone for anything i gave the toddler causing the toddler to punch him hard. Guess it was an unsolvable situation. Who'd have thought parenting was so hard

Put the TWO YEAR OLD in the sling on your back; slip all children raw carrot as you are chopping it

And in your house, your food rules apply. I think it's torture having to wait for food when really hungry and when you have no control over the timing of the food.

Gosh yes, your sis needs to relax her routines a little in other people's houses.
What was she doing while you were cooking?
Perhaps it would be more acceptable to her if you rephrased it and said 'I thought the children could eat their starter at the coffee table tonight'

lol at starter at the coffee table! If only i could afford a coffee table (or a house big enough to fit one) :-) Putting the toddler in the sling is a really good idea thanks - i'll try that if im in a similar situation again

Me again. Has anyone any experience of getting their DH/P back on board with UP after initial enthusiasm has resulted in defaulting back to authoritarian style? DH is great with babies but now toddler stage is resulting in a clash of wills between him and DD. I've stuck with the UP approach and it seems to work well - DD and I rarely clash, and people tell me DD is happy, polite and well-behaved, which to my mind suggests UP works, although obviously DH and her nursery have input into that too - but what I consider picking my battles DH thinks is over-indulging her. He feels I'm always telling him he's doing it wrong though, so I need to be a bit careful how I re-approach this. Or do I shrug it off and DD adapts to different parenting approaches?

My ex disagrees about parenting style - he is very authorative and used to pull their hair/pinche/bite them to teach them to empathise. I sat him down and went through key stastics in the Alfie Kohn book (he likes hard evidence) and it really surprised him. He still maintains I am too lenient and 'hippyish' but he has become tolerant and less strict. Maybe because your DH doesn't spend enough time with your DD he doesn't see how your methods work?
If it helps my eldest DD (2.5) has allready worked out how the behave differently in different houses - for example Daddy uses reward charts and she talks about 'earning stars' at Daddys but not at Mummys. I'm careful never to critise Daddy around her but at the same time to be clear that at home we do things differently. I guess its easier that there are two physical homes but I'm sure your DD will adjust

From what I've read on here, there are lots of families where the two parents have different styles (not necessarily UP/authoritarian).
What he is doing, is it really worth giving him the impression that you think he's not getting it right? I would have to say something if DH was acting like MonkeyandParrots ex did. But I turn a blind eye to the occasional bribe/threat as long as he doesn't expect me to get actively involved.

Thanks, yes it's nothing 'huge' I suppose, just things like his super-strict adherence to bedtime routine and DD being 'obedient'. DD brushes teeth then goes to her room where we have story, and the other night she wanted to wash her hands after brushing but because that's not part of the 'routine', DH wouldn't let her. I intervened to say "DH, why can't she wash her hands?" as it was getting heated - and really, I didn't see what the big deal was, much quicker/easier to let DD wash her hands, where's the harm? - and DH grudgingly said "oh alright then" but was a bit put out at me sticking my oar in, and that DD 'got her own way'. Then it becomes UP vs 'her doing what she's told', me undermining him, lack of discipline etc... But I don't consider that a discipline issue as what she wanted seemed reasonable to me. Maybe I'll highlight a few of the stats in the book to him again, and then leave it if he's still not on board. Reassuring to know two different styles doesn't result in confused child!

"obedience" for the sake of obedience drives me nuts. My dp liked to do this when my dd was young - I find it quite controlling; even bullying.

Why would you prevent a child from washing her hands?