Am I the only one who worries that modern parenting techniques will result in a nation of brats who expect everybody

[Twiglett]

to do what they want them to do, to not exhibit any negative emotions or vocabulary and to accept any way they act

I do wonder sometimes when I see some of the vehement opinions expressed on here

but then I hope this is only the nature of parenting toddlers and that these children will start to get an idea of what real life is like as they grow up and before they get rudely thrust into it not understanding why the world doesn't bend to their every whim nor explain everything in minute detail

UN declaration of rights .. fabulous .. yes rights have responsibilities!

This is a really interesting thread to me, and seems more of an actual discussion than the every one accusing everyone of saying they're a bad parent, which seems to happen a lot on MN.
I agree with what Custy said way down the thread, and anniemac about the powerlessness of teachers, but it is our responsibility as parents to teach our kids to respect adults and behave in school. The state of schools today has made me actively research home schooling.
I really think we should parent when our children are young and become friends with them when they become adults, at least that's what my relationship is with my mother, and who is my parenting guru, as all her children have turned out as nice respectable people who care about others and respect their elders.
TBH, the world I have born my dd's into scares the shit out of me. It is such a fast paced world, full of technology designed to make our lives easier due to having to work such long hours because society has become so money oriented. It is nearly impossible to live on normal wage these days, and frankly I don't think the next generation need to worry about there inheritance because for a lot of them there wont be any. Thank god debts are not passed onto children!!!!

I am already puzzled as to how to teach my daughters how to live in such a pc crazy world where everyone is too scared to say/do anything incase they get sued or have their kids taken away. How do you teach a child to live in a world like that. In a world that I myself have trouble understanding, and have a hard time making sense of.

Sorry, long, but there is so much to say

What a great thread Twiglett.

I totally agree with all your sentiments.

And I loved mytwopenceworths's post - taking us through the 20's, 30's, 40's - LOL and accurate.

I, like mum2girls, find it.... well frightening, actually that we seem to have become a nation , who think that giving them everything they want = good parenting.

Which leads me onto my final point.

I Love Mumsnet.
But sometimes I feel like I don't fit in.

Zippitoes said that there seems to be alot of child-centred parenting websites.

Sometimes it feels as though the majority of posters on Mumsnet, fall into that category.

Maybe I am misinterpreting, or reading the wrong threads, or....

But quite a lot of the time, I feel that alot of the posts are too child centred and not strict enough.

And I come from a different generation ( being 34!!!!!!) and from a family, that was totally loved, but with strong guidelines of what was acceptable, was smacked only twice, because I only NEEDED to be smacked twice. Because I loved, but respected my mum and without actually saying anyway, she and my dad, had already set the guidelines of what kind of behaviour was acceptable.

I am trying to re-create that same atmosphere in our home. And I admitted to my um , yesterday, that I am not really achieving this. But it is what I am aiming for.

Most of the time, on mumsnet, I feel like I am in the minority - that I am considered to be too harsh.

It is so nice to be on this thread and realise that I am not alone.

My parents and their generation have been very envious of all the information and research available to me as I embarked on the parenthood bandwagon. I am the overindulged brat, who, now realising that I will never achieve anything (don't ask exactly WHAT the achievement was supposed to be), sinks into despondency and makes even less effort. My kids at 4 and 6 are healthier, more socialised, much better educated, behave better and understand their own needs and other people's(including mine as I never stop moaning and becoming depressed with my lot). I insist that they help with the household, get exercise and do their homework for example, which I as a child was let off due to the 60's-70's "free will" fad. I watched vapid tv continuously, no cbeebies teaching me sign language.

Fashions come and go in everything, and "evidence-based parenting" is NOT yet a reality-almost all of this stuff is anecdotal, and a lot of the research is suspect too. What is different is that everything is in a constant state of flux and that the masses are reached more thoroughly with the latest (unproven) fad.

who is in control?

Oblomov, MN is for everyone. I come on for advice, to give advice where I can. To give support to those who need it, and to have a laugh with those MNetters that are now my friends.

I feel like I ride my 3 yo too hard sometimes. I am always on to her about manners, and doing as she is told, and at 3 she is lashing back with finding her independence, but we're getting there. Children with set boundaries that never/rarely vary are happier children because they know where they are.
I remember at 13 yo wanting more money than I got for my pocket money. But I didn't ask my mum for more and expect to be given it, I went to my local newsagents and got a paperround!!
I learnt the value of money, and how to prioritise what I wanted.
My mum taught me that even more when I was 16. I was given £40 a month, and could spend it on what I wanted, but that had to include, all clothes, toiletries(bar deoderant etc)and anything else I wanted.
If I blew it, that was that!!

BandofMothers, I do of course realise that Mn is for everyone,
And I do know what a fountain of knowledge that Mn can provide.

And I also know that I have been VERY supported, by other mumsnetetrs, in my time.

I have been given very kind words of support, from the very mumsnetters who believe I am too harsh in my parenting techniques..
But which 'camp' they fall into, doesn't matter, at the time, when they so lovingly, give words of comfort to me, does it ?

Please tell me that you understand what i am trying to say, and that I am expressing myself correctly.

I too got a job at aged 13 and have never been without one.
I paid for my own driving lessons and bought my own first car with my 'job money'. My parents were not poor at all, but I earnt it myself.

Oblomov, that was said in a kind, friendly voice, not a stern, "Don't you know" kind of way.

We have lots of fabulous posters .. but some of the more vocal ones do tend to the more permissive style of parenting than I personally would move towards .. and that tends to develop a bandwagon that people jump on and it does seem to the main MN opinion

I find that I can't be bothered entering the fray most of the time .. don't actually want to justify my techniques and certainly don't want to be called any of the horribly negative terminology that tends to be bandied about (abusive etc) ...

Fair enough I also take the piss out of the more 'lentil-weavery' parenting style but I don't think I've ever used the same type of condemnatory terminology

I do think there is a silent majority into which we, you and I Oblomov, fit .. who just basically come here to entertain / be entertained

Occasionally it narks me, my apathy at getting involved, so I start a thread like this (or 2) to redress the balance and get people like you out of the woodwork and pinning your colours to the mast

Thank you Bandofmothers.
I did understand that.

I want to stick my neck out here.
Zippitoes said that some parenting websites were quite child centred.
I think the whole world has become too child centred.
Mumsnettt included.
But I Know that I am in the minority to feel this, so that is o.k.

don't think you are .. I think you're in the silent majority

Oh Twiglett, I lose many a nights sleep pondering this question.

Frankly it is worrying the way that young people react socially today.

Is it down to parenting? I can only think so.

Its up to us to break the cycle. >> I think that you cant go too wrong if you quote the ten commandments. Im not a churchy, bible basher but they do seem to hold some water when giving parameters to live by.

Can anyone quote the full ten without googling btw.

I mean it makes me sad to think that I am in the minority. But I suppose I just am.
I am still happy with my choice. I don't want to convert anyone else.
But it makes me sad.
As Twiglett says in her last post, she doesn't enter the fray....
alot of the time I can't post things, because it achieves nothing and only aggrevates people.

It's not feeling like you are the minority.

Sorry, its not NICE feeling like you are the minority.

HOtXMum can't do the 10, except something about adultery, but how about the Golden Rule?

Love one another.

That's what really matters and the meaning of life, for Buddhist, Chrisitan, Atheist, everyone.

I think it applies across generations, classes, and parenting camps too.

Let's cut each other some slack, and try to listen without judging in a disrespectful way.

(descends from pulpit-must go to loo!

My view is that we have lost sight of our own needs emotionally and we transfer this to our children, what else have we got to do?

Socially this last generation has lost its ability to truly and meaningfully socialise, so let socialise our kids instead.

This brings out competitiveness to throw bigger better parties, dress the kids in the latest gear.

Meanwhile the meaningful nurturing is lost in the hub bub of everything else!

Some of you may say, I dont know what you mean by the last paragraph. No you wont because you have already lost sight of nurturing or maybe you never had it from your parents and therefore dont know how to pass it on. God knows, I barely remember as I have to say that I have been out of practice because of the diversion of consumerism.

BOM, blimey, £40 at 16! It was the other way in our house, I paid my parents keep at 16.

You lucky girl.

Parenting styles swing from permissive to authoritarian. Twas ever thus. And most kids grow up fine.

I think children now are symptomatic of what society has become generally. In Britain it is common for people to moan about the 'nanny state', but then to pass the buck of responsibility to the government for, say, anti-social behaviour, truancy, binge drinking - the list is endless. It seems that all of society's ills are someone else's fault and we are a nation who have absolved themselves personally of blame for anything.

As the very wise Custardo said in a post a while back "To invest in the children, you have to invest in the parents" or words to that effect (Sorry if I have misquoted you, Oh wise one!)

i don't know

i think i'm too strict most of the time

i guess some parents are relaxed with their kids because they want to do it differently to their parents eg dads not around much, not having great toys, memory of hating school dinners or whatever it is

maybe the next generation of parents will be fantastic!!

Here's a good one for Mumsnetters

Oh, this is such a difficult one!

I agree with Twig in that Ive met a lot of parents who seem to deserve the children theyve got. I never understood that thing about not saying no to a child.

But Ive been saying no to DD for nearly 6 years, and at times she can be incrediblt rude, and still throws tantrums like a toddler.

Yes there are tions of things that could be causing it.

Yes I could take her to the CDC and ask what is wrong with her (bit embarrassing tho as I work there!)

But maybe she's still a work in progress, and we just have to keep going?

In her favour, she can be the funniest, most loving child imaginable, but being with her is never relaxing.

By the way, my mother wiould definitely agree that my working was part of the problem - also lack of smacks etc!

Hmm Interestingly I cant find a ready list, simple and concise of the Bible's Ten Commandments on Google.

That says it all, really!

im not a 'modern parenter'.
there is no fecking way on god's earth i would put ds1 on the 'naughty step' 20 odd times if he did something bad like we always saw on 'supernanny'. super my arse.

Agree in part Twigglet and Grumpyoldhorsewoman; parents should take much more responsibility for their children's behaviour. But also agree Greensleeves and HotXmum that the problem is wider than that. I live abroad in a very child-focused society where the family is still valued and consumerism hasn't got out of hand. There are lots of organised activities for children at weekends and during the holidays, the scale and quality of nursery provision is excellent, there is a child's playground in every 'quartier', special children's areas in most shops (even tiny local chemists for example) and generally the attitude to children is much warmer and it has to be said, much stricter than in the UK. Of course, always difficult to generalise but the behaviour of children is very impressive here and (sorry to say this) the xpat British children have a bad name!! Diet also plays a large part in this too I reckon. Sorry! Ranting now! But although I agree with GOhorsewoman that the state of our children is a reflection of our society as a whole; surely we should then make it more child-focused not less?