Am I the only one who worries that modern parenting techniques will result in a nation of brats who expect everybody

[Twiglett]

to do what they want them to do, to not exhibit any negative emotions or vocabulary and to accept any way they act

I do wonder sometimes when I see some of the vehement opinions expressed on here

but then I hope this is only the nature of parenting toddlers and that these children will start to get an idea of what real life is like as they grow up and before they get rudely thrust into it not understanding why the world doesn't bend to their every whim nor explain everything in minute detail

Absolutely. Bring back the birch. Bloody do-gooders. It's PC gone mad.

Twiglett - I think we shall have to agree to disaggree. I don;t think being postive and encouraging children to feel good about themselves will bring about a nation of brats. By feeling good about yourself allows you to deal with the negative things that will no doubt have to deal with. Being postive is very different to having no boundaries and being inconsitent. it is these two facts ehcih will bring out brats. I can only asure you my 2 dds are no brats but confident respectable well behaved children. The children I teach, who are not like this, are those that have low self-esteem. They have negative attention seeking behaviour - ie behave naughty to get attention or have no boundaries at home. My children have boundaries which have been achieved by praise.

(ummm I say well beahved - both dds are no crying having "chosen" to do something naughty )

greeny's right, twig

you just don't go far enoough

cat o 9 tails like the good old days

An interesting article Bruminmum, but very American. Do you think those same things can be applied to British Millenials?
I am completely on the fence about this one And that doesn't just apply to my opinion. I think that I incorporate a little of every thing in my parenting. I just hope the result isn't confused kids
The thing I do really agree with is that parents of toddler should probably be idealistic at this stage, but it can't last. They make statements that they really have to way of knowing will hold true in rebellious teenage years.
I also think that parents who have one child are particularly suspetible (sp) to this kind of thinking. Please don't think this is an attack on such parents, I know some people choose this for good reasons, and some don't have a choice. I just think, that until you have had to compromise yourself between different children, it can be too easy to feel that your one way of doing things is the right way

IMHO

there's nothing wrong with being positive but there's lots wrong in explaining everything interminably sometimes they just need to hear NO

nothing wrong with treating your child, lots wrong with them getting everything there heart desires

nothing wrong with giving your child jobs to do around the house

nothing wrong with not allowing your child to do something because you don't want them to do it

Twig

'there'? [wangry]

As usual you are right.

Flippant comments about the birch and cat 'o'nine tails are unworthy.

Ah, but some people encourage their children to behave badly by giving them clothes with iffy slogans like "Here comes trouble", "Little Miss Attitude", and "Whatever".

I do believe in praise and extreme amounts of love too...loads of cuddles and kisses...

BUT I do think that somehow these days ( and I do see the difference having a 14 yr old and 12 yr old then a huge gap to my 20 month old) that children actually belive themselves to be the absolute equal to adults in every way.

When I was younger and at a friends hous i called their mum 'Mrs Smith' or 'Mrs Brown' ( if that was their name). If I was a regular visitor or their mum knew my mum well then I may go on to call them Aunty *. Never would I have called them by their christian name.

This had all changed by the time my two older two were tiny..they called my friends by their christian name straight away..

I dread to think what my dd3 will call my friends....

I don't belive in the 'children hould be seen and not heard' theory whatsoever, but I used to get put to bed sooo early as a young child as it was my parents time to be together in the evenings...these days it seems de rigeur to allow children to stay up as long as they want and to control the tv viewing...

actually the attitude that those t-shirts are humorous is probably symptomatic of the main issue .. what kind of society applauds that kind of thing in our children .. and I know most kids who wear them can't f'kin' read 'em

more appropriate would be Little Miss Manners and Here comes Me

Hey, I could get dp to print some - "T-shirts for Good Children" - do you think they'd sell?

Yes, might as well stick them in a sludge grey t shirt with "Borstal Boy!" emblazoned across the front

Or pink low ride jogging bottoms with "When I grow up, I want to be a prostitute" on the bottom.

How about "hit me, I need it"

"Here comes I"?

oh greeny

tshirts dont make the kid act naughtily. lack of parenting allows that.

i think there is a middle ground.

you can chastise, shout and be stern with childrena s long as you give them love, encouragement, hugs, kisses and all the good stuff too.

where you do gooder hippy types dont get it is that if i say i will not allow a certain behaviour and act sternly towards my child, you only see - that woman speaks to her children like that all the time.

well i dont. there are extremes of parenting.

you can be stern and strict. and you can love hug and kiss too.

you can punish bad behaviour - you can reward good behaviour too - one does not negate the other.

you can smack a child without it being the torturous preposterous abuse listed on the other thread.

you can shout at a child - without it being like he NSPcc advert ( ripped up homework KWIM?)

you can love a child always, sing bedtime songs, dance in the living room, bake pies, buy a new toy for £1 every week, and ive in to their every whim sometimes - without being a hippy do gooder. you can buy them sweets occasionally as long as they dont eat them all the time.

to me thats common sense - i reckon most parents work that way. some like to be uber parents and uber housewives and uber everything. i know people like that. kids usually have twonky names.

i know my kids are great and their kids are like that vile girl from charlieand the chocolate factory.

yes exactly twiglett

there is a childhood industry now

that is the main change in the last 50 years

it is no longer a toy industry but big bucks from anything child related including and especially media and because the child span is short it has to be very pressured to get the money back from those few years

and everyone with children wants a life work balance so they are all seeking child friendly/oriented work

so there are strong financial interests at micro and macro levels to centre thinking on children

do children benefit from the attention to this

they probably do but along the way some will get spoilt and some will still be neglected

I've often said to friends that it seems as though they treat their children more like friends. Which is fine, but children need to know 'who's boss' IYKWIM?
The problem with society these days is that kids are expected to have the latest this and the newest that. I feel sorry for the poor parents who can't afford to keep up with these trends!
I know a couple of children who basically get everything they ask for . When in life are they going to get the chance to value anything, to have goals to work towards!! This IMO is the basis of the problems we have today.
Children need to hear the word 'NO'! And if they ask why.......because i said so is the only answer they need!

I LOVE CUSTY

I'd wear that

that custy woman talks a lot of sense

have there not always been badly behaved children . who develop into spoilt teens, lazy adults, who don;t take responsibility..the sort that made our grandads wish for national service to be reinstated

i think the key is consistency, both care givers backing each other up, rewarding the good, punishing the bad and encouraging taking responsibility form an early age, and being a team player..

not to say then you will rear a perfect angel, children need boundaries to kick against, so they can explore what is ok and what is not, and also so they can explore their personalities and all their emotions

As usual Custy, spot on.

Thelittleelf, that is one of my bugbears too. What is so wrong with just saying no sometimes without launching into a mini-presentation to explain the reasons?

there are brilliant kids we all meet though who thrive from all sorts of parenting..let's not be too down on any particular method

the children who get the worst deal are those whose parents just can't manage

my favourite parenting phrase is

BECAUSE I SAID SO

usually with a tone to it and up a few notches on the volume

I explain things and am patient and calm to a point, but sometimes you have to draw a line in the sand and be in charge

Seriously though, IMO it's not as simple as "modern parenting methods are responsible for the shocking behaviour of young folk today". IMO it's much more complex and multi-causal than that. Other factors would include the increasing fragmentation of family life due to increasing pressure on parents to work longer and longer hours - the cost of living is such that most households need two incomes to stay afloat. The house prices boom hasn't helped. Parents are more stressed and more tired and see less of their children IMO (that's not a criticism, just an observation).

IMO also the influence of more and more manic, frenetic children's TV and games consoles and other such stuff has led to children doing far too little exercise. IME lack of exercise is disastrous for a child's mood and behaviour. Children's diets (not all children, but enough to make a trend) have deteriorated to the point where paediatricians are regularly reporting seeing children whose digestion is such a mess that they are effectively vomiting faeces. I know we go overboard and take the piss on here about Fruit Shoots and McDonalds, but there is a real problem around children's nutrition IMO.

Also IMO, our modern capitalist social structure actively works against extended family/community relations. Traditionally there would have been a local/family infrastructure for parents to support and complement their parenting, and to learn the skills that are required for running a home and bringing up a family. Now, increasingly, young families are isolated in nuclear units, shuttling themselves and their children to and from work/school in private cars and often not knowing their neighbours, not to mention living hundreds of miles away from their extended families. IMO this is one of the reasons why some parents are more "wet" and less decisive/consistent in their parenting - they don't feel they know what they are doing, they are terrified of damaging or traumatising their child, they lack the sense of natural authority/confidence that comes from knowing that you are part of a wider family/community who are supporting and reinforcing you.

So although I don't personally think much of naughty steps and star charts - it's not a simple monocausal issue. Bringing back corporal punishment wouldn't cure the problems of chaos and anarchy in our schools IMO. Smacking children more often/ "cracking down" wouldn't remove the underlying social problems that have led us to where we are. Elastoplast solutions aren't usually much good IMO.